Hockey News mock draft

[STL fan in MN]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

[zamadoo]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

[Harry S Deals]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

The Brantford article i read has him at 180 already again, hes not 19 yet give him some time hes nowhere near a bust. He may have been the youngest prospect in the draft he will grow into the pro game quite nicely

[kimzey59]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Not one of those guys were offensively inclined.
Aitcheson is big and physical, but he's currently very bad at playing actual defense. He's an offensive defenseman with a mean streak.

With the D we typically draft, it's easy to see the development path at a very early stage. With the big D we draft, you can almost automatically project them towards becoming a stay at home, defense oriented player. With the offensive types, we tend towards speed and vision and it's easy to see those traits at the lower levels.
Aitcheson is the opposite. He's big, he's legitimately mean and his offense stems from his canon of a shot. He's a Jake Trouba/Brent Burns type(stylistically at least, I seriously doubt that Aitcheson actually reaches anything close to prime Brent Burns level). Yes, he has a physical game; but you're not drafting him to be a stay at home type. You're accepting that his defensive game is going to be "rough" and hoping he puts up enough points to offset it. If it works out, you have a unicorn on your hands. If it doesn't, most of those types don't even make the League.

Under our last several Head Scouts(Jarmo, Bill Army, Feltrin), we tend to avoid those types of players. We tend to target players on a more linear development path.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

Any thoughts about Simon Wang a D man with Oshawa ? I wonder if the fact that he is Chinese and a nontraditional hockey nation and started playing late will hurt him ? Saw him in a couple of games and he has good size and is a pretty good skater.

[kimzey59]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

Even beyond the 1st we don't tend to go for guys like Aitcheson.

It's more than just the physical play. Simplifying things that much is like saying Pronger and Brent Burns were "similar". No, they aren't. Pronger was the best defensive player in the game for a LONG stretch of time. Burns always was and is a defensive liability that needs a partner or 2nd pairing to carry the defensive load for him.

Fischer I'll admit is more offensively inclined than defensively inclined, but he's the first guy we've drafted like that(size, physical play and offense oriented) since EJ in '06. It's just not the playing style we go after.
But that isn't true of Quinton Burns. Burns can carry a very heavy load defensively. His offensive progression this year was actually pretty unexpected.

[Pierre McGuire]

Any thoughts about Simon Wang a D man with Oshawa ? I wonder if the fact that he is Chinese and a nontraditional hockey nation and started playing late will hurt him ? Saw him in a couple of games and he has good size and is a pretty good skater.

Wang is good and he's got an edge, I saw several of his games and I think he actually likes to hurt people. He's a project though but if you can wait 4-5 years you might have a real good player on your hands

[Harry S Deals]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Not one of those guys were offensively inclined.
Aitcheson is big and physical, but he's currently very bad at playing actual defense. He's an offensive defenseman with a mean streak.

With the D we typically draft, it's easy to see the development path at a very early stage. With the big D we draft, you can almost automatically project them towards becoming a stay at home, defense oriented player. With the offensive types, we tend towards speed and vision and it's easy to see those traits at the lower levels.
Aitcheson is the opposite. He's big, he's legitimately mean and his offense stems from his canon of a shot. He's a Jake Trouba/Brent Burns type(stylistically at least, I seriously doubt that Aitcheson actually reaches anything close to prime Brent Burns level). Yes, he has a physical game; but you're not drafting him to be a stay at home type. You're accepting that his defensive game is going to be "rough" and hoping he puts up enough points to offset it. If it works out, you have a unicorn on your hands. If it doesn't, most of those types don't even make the League.

Under our last several Head Scouts(Jarmo, Bill Army, Feltrin), we tend to avoid those types of players. We tend to target players on a more linear development path.

Offensive defenseman with mean streaks is a very narrow band of players thus the reason the Blues do not typically draft in this category. It's like a pink Ferrari it may be out there but you won't see that many. Pronger is once in a generation player

[STL fan in MN]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

The Brantford article i read has him at 180 already again, hes not 19 yet give him some time hes nowhere near a bust. He may have been the youngest prospect in the draft he will grow into the pro game quite nicely

I’m far from calling him a bust but I also want to be honest in my assessment. He didn’t have a good D+1 season after not having a great draft season. It’s not encouraging and is a legit concern.

The kid’s skating and offensive sense are good. And he’s 6’2” and a righty, so there are certainly some aspects of his game that are encouraging. But he’s supposed to have good two-way ability and I see him as lacking on both the offensive and defensive sides of the game. He only scored 12 pts in 27 games this season. That’s really not anything special at all, especially given where he was drafted. He just didn’t do much in terms of leading with transition or controlling the blue line in the offensive zone. But his main deficiencies are in his defensive game IMO. His positioning and decision making were both downright bad in the OHL. There’s also the fact he only played 27 games after playing even fewer last season. He suffered 3-5 additional injuries this season, one of them being a pretty obvious concussion (after having one last season too). Could he end up being healthy going forward? Sure, but it’s a massive red flag. If he was a 3rd round pick, I’d say he’s right on track and he looked good and he has some tools that might make him a real impact d-man if he can improve his weaknesses. That’d be fantastic for a 3rd round pick. But we drafted him 16th overall…and by those expectations, he had a bad season IMO.

I really hope he can add another 10+ lbs of muscle this summer and stay healthy this next season. The next 12 months will be huge for his career IMO. We really need him to hit as we could badly use a young top-4 RD to come up through the system in the next few years but I’m also going to call a spade a spade. The Blues took a risk on a d-man that has some good tools but missed most of his draft season with a blown out knee…and so far that risk isn’t looking so great IMO.

[kimzey59]

Pronger is once in a generation player

I love Prong's as much as anyone, but there were 4 of them while he was playing.
Scott Stevens, Rob Blake, Zdeno Chara, Shea Weber(I find it insulting that Erik Karlsson and Duncan Keith got Norris Trophy's and not Weber; at least the HOF got it right)
Pronger was the best of the lot but they all played extremely similar styles.

[Harry S Deals]

Pronger is once in a generation player

I love Prong's as much as anyone, but there were 4 of them while he was playing.
Scott Stevens, Rob Blake, Zdeno Chara, Shea Weber(I find it insulting that Erik Karlsson and Duncan Keith got Norris Trophy's and not Weber; at least the HOF got it right)
Pronger was the best of the lot but they all played extremely similar styles.

I think Pronger was a notch above all those guys and had a much wider game that any of them although Stevens was pretty close. The last dman to win a Hart was Bobby Orr that says a lot

[seattleblue]

Any thoughts about Simon Wang a D man with Oshawa ? I wonder if the fact that he is Chinese and a nontraditional hockey nation and started playing late will hurt him ? Saw him in a couple of games and he has good size and is a pretty good skater.

I have him as a straight up do not draft. Wang is not in any way good. He has the opposite of an edge. He's butter soft and inept with no hockey IQ.

The entire idea of him is that in 5 years he could be good, all he has to do is learn the game because of his gifted figure skating abilities. Let someone else be that shrewd IMO. That is the opposite of organizational philosophy that a team should have. That is desperation and lottery tickets.

[Harry S Deals]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

The Brantford article i read has him at 180 already again, hes not 19 yet give him some time hes nowhere near a bust. He may have been the youngest prospect in the draft he will grow into the pro game quite nicely

I’m far from calling him a bust but I also want to be honest in my assessment. He didn’t have a good D+1 season after not having a great draft season. It’s not encouraging and is a legit concern.

The kid’s skating and offensive sense are good. And he’s 6’2” and a righty, so there are certainly some aspects of his game that are encouraging. But he’s supposed to have good two-way ability and I see him as lacking on both the offensive and defensive sides of the game. He only scored 12 pts in 27 games this season. That’s really not anything special at all, especially given where he was drafted. He just didn’t do much in terms of leading with transition or controlling the blue line in the offensive zone. But his main deficiencies are in his defensive game IMO. His positioning and decision making were both downright bad in the OHL. There’s also the fact he only played 27 games after playing even fewer last season. He suffered 3-5 additional injuries this season, one of them being a pretty obvious concussion (after having one last season too). Could he end up being healthy going forward? Sure, but it’s a massive red flag. If he was a 3rd round pick, I’d say he’s right on track and he looked good and he has some tools that might make him a real impact d-man if he can improve his weaknesses. That’d be fantastic for a 3rd round pick. But we drafted him 16th overall…and by those expectations, he had a bad season IMO.

I really hope he can add another 10+ lbs of muscle this summer and stay healthy this next season. The next 12 months will be huge for his career IMO. We really need him to hit as we could badly use a young top-4 RD to come up through the system in the next few years but I’m also going to call a spade a spade. The Blues took a risk on a d-man that has some good tools but missed most of his draft season with a blown out knee…and so far that risk isn’t looking so great IMO.

Brantford coach Jay McKee said earlier this season that Jiricek is the real deal.

Article content
“He’s had frustrations . . . as a player you want to play,” McKee said “For him to be off that long and then get an injury right away, it’s frustrating.

“He’s an incredible hockey player. He has an incredible future ahead of him.”

Give him time

[seattleblue]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

Even beyond the 1st we don't tend to go for guys like Aitcheson.

It's more than just the physical play. Simplifying things that much is like saying Pronger and Brent Burns were "similar". No, they aren't. Pronger was the best defensive player in the game for a LONG stretch of time. Burns always was and is a defensive liability that needs a partner or 2nd pairing to carry the defensive load for him.

Fischer I'll admit is more offensively inclined than defensively inclined, but he's the first guy we've drafted like that(size, physical play and offense oriented) since EJ in '06. It's just not the playing style we go after.
But that isn't true of Quinton Burns. Burns can carry a very heavy load defensively. His offensive progression this year was actually pretty unexpected.

sorry that I failed in defended your point with the proper nuance. it's like how that time I accidentally didn't mention Hagens and how I watch more prospects than anyone here but failed to watch the right defenseman even though I was up front about how much attention I have for it. I take your point each time! I tried to make sure to give you open credit for Thomas in a thread recently. But I didn't adhere to the rules you prefer for seeing posts so I ran afoul again. I am sorry it is so tough to put up with me!

[seattleblue]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

The Brantford article i read has him at 180 already again, hes not 19 yet give him some time hes nowhere near a bust. He may have been the youngest prospect in the draft he will grow into the pro game quite nicely

I’m far from calling him a bust but I also want to be honest in my assessment. He didn’t have a good D+1 season after not having a great draft season. It’s not encouraging and is a legit concern.

The kid’s skating and offensive sense are good. And he’s 6’2” and a righty, so there are certainly some aspects of his game that are encouraging. But he’s supposed to have good two-way ability and I see him as lacking on both the offensive and defensive sides of the game. He only scored 12 pts in 27 games this season. That’s really not anything special at all, especially given where he was drafted. He just didn’t do much in terms of leading with transition or controlling the blue line in the offensive zone. But his main deficiencies are in his defensive game IMO. His positioning and decision making were both downright bad in the OHL. There’s also the fact he only played 27 games after playing even fewer last season. He suffered 3-5 additional injuries this season, one of them being a pretty obvious concussion (after having one last season too). Could he end up being healthy going forward? Sure, but it’s a massive red flag. If he was a 3rd round pick, I’d say he’s right on track and he looked good and he has some tools that might make him a real impact d-man if he can improve his weaknesses. That’d be fantastic for a 3rd round pick. But we drafted him 16th overall…and by those expectations, he had a bad season IMO.

I really hope he can add another 10+ lbs of muscle this summer and stay healthy this next season. The next 12 months will be huge for his career IMO. We really need him to hit as we could badly use a young top-4 RD to come up through the system in the next few years but I’m also going to call a spade a spade. The Blues took a risk on a d-man that has some good tools but missed most of his draft season with a blown out knee…and so far that risk isn’t looking so great IMO.

of course this is all accurate but on the other hand there's a quote Jay McKee gave a reporter. which to go with?

[STL fan in MN]

It would be one of those two players and I would understand the logic of either.

kimzey is right that we often pick the slightly undersized skilled motor guy. Aitcheson is the safer pick but either pick would be good.

Polak, Salvador, Edmundson, Mikkola, Tucker didn't really have to develop Jackman much

Should have been clearer. I am pretty sure kimzey's meaning was with the first round pick and that's how I was using it. The reason is that teams try to get all the raw skill out of the initial picks that they can. The physical defenseman is a 2d, 3d and often later round creature. Blues have two nasty boys in Burns and Fischer right now.

I may be out on a limb here but I think Tyler Tucker is a fixture going forward you can check off another d spot. I also heard Adam Jiricek will play with an edge too perhaps esp when he gets more comfortable as he matures

Jiricek is soft as butter and built like a flagpole. Maybe he adds an edge to his game if he’s ever able to build out his frame but as of today, there’s no edge to his game.

In the limited viewings I've been able to watch, he seemed solid with a bit of an edge - not totally passive or getting manhandled by his peers, but able to go into corners and use the body as necessary. I was impressed with his play in the defensive zone for the Czech's this past winter. I have seen very little of him in the OHL though.

The Brantford article i read has him at 180 already again, hes not 19 yet give him some time hes nowhere near a bust. He may have been the youngest prospect in the draft he will grow into the pro game quite nicely

I’m far from calling him a bust but I also want to be honest in my assessment. He didn’t have a good D+1 season after not having a great draft season. It’s not encouraging and is a legit concern.

The kid’s skating and offensive sense are good. And he’s 6’2” and a righty, so there are certainly some aspects of his game that are encouraging. But he’s supposed to have good two-way ability and I see him as lacking on both the offensive and defensive sides of the game. He only scored 12 pts in 27 games this season. That’s really not anything special at all, especially given where he was drafted. He just didn’t do much in terms of leading with transition or controlling the blue line in the offensive zone. But his main deficiencies are in his defensive game IMO. His positioning and decision making were both downright bad in the OHL. There’s also the fact he only played 27 games after playing even fewer last season. He suffered 3-5 additional injuries this season, one of them being a pretty obvious concussion (after having one last season too). Could he end up being healthy going forward? Sure, but it’s a massive red flag. If he was a 3rd round pick, I’d say he’s right on track and he looked good and he has some tools that might make him a real impact d-man if he can improve his weaknesses. That’d be fantastic for a 3rd round pick. But we drafted him 16th overall…and by those expectations, he had a bad season IMO.

I really hope he can add another 10+ lbs of muscle this summer and stay healthy this next season. The next 12 months will be huge for his career IMO. We really need him to hit as we could badly use a young top-4 RD to come up through the system in the next few years but I’m also going to call a spade a spade. The Blues took a risk on a d-man that has some good tools but missed most of his draft season with a blown out knee…and so far that risk isn’t looking so great IMO.

Brantford coach Jay McKee said earlier this season that Jiricek is the real deal.

Article content
“He’s had frustrations . . . as a player you want to play,” McKee said “For him to be off that long and then get an injury right away, it’s frustrating.

“He’s an incredible hockey player. He has an incredible future ahead of him.”

Give him time

That’s nice. Of course his coach is going to talk him up. Go find all the flowery quotes you want but I’m going to continue to actually watch him play and make my assessment from there.

And nowhere did I say to not give him time. But there’s really no denying he didn’t have a good season developmentally. He has talent and pretty high potential but there’s legit concerns about his future and I’m not going to deny it.

To me, you’re trying too hard to make the picture look rosy. You even do that by saying “he may have been the youngest prospect in the draft.” No he wasn’t. His birthday’s in June. The age cutoff for the draft is Sept 15. He was on the younger side of his draft class but do you really think nobody between July, August and the first half of Sept weren’t drafted last year? Logic would suggest close to 1/4 of last year’s draft class was younger than Jiricek.