Would Marco Rossi Be A Good Fit For The St. Louis Blues?

[noted]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Brayden Point

Brayden Point is 5'11"

[noted]

Daniel Briere

Know he finished his career at wing. He also hasn't played in the league in over a decade. This might be the answer though.

[TheJackBurton]

I can't see how Army can fleece a division rival in a trade. If he does, then they ought to put him in the HOF right now. Rossi would be a great get, but the Blues would have to pay for it for sure. Now if Bolduc is really fools gold, then maybe we can pull it off, but who knows how the Blues brass feels about Bolduc.

I had my doubts about Bolduc, but when he said I want to score 20 this year and potted 19, that completely changed my opinion of him.

[Sophisticated Shoes]

Blues have DD arriving likely later this year and they have Dean, who ideally would fill #3C. Blues either bring in an older C/Wing during the transition or not, but why sign a guy like Rossi when the team is only a year away from Dvorsky?
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems a guy like Grandlund, if he still plays Center, would be a better way to allocate resources as we await DD/Dean.

[Lone_Ranger]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Bedard's 5'10", like 1 inch is a big deal? Today's game accommodates the smaller player now anyway.

In what ways has the game accommodated to smaller players? Especially in the playoffs?

And Bedard is a generational talent. So Rossi is both shorter and less skilled. And Bedard is going to have to improve at being a C if he wants to stick at C. His faceoff % this season was 38%. That’s simply unsustainable. And he’s destroyed on the defensive metrics too. Part of that is he’s simply 19 and he’ll get better but the size disadvantage sure doesn’t help and will be a detriment his entire career.

If Rossi had Bedard level skill then this would be a different conversation. But he doesn’t.

Nathan Walker is 5'9" and he plays big. You can't say the game today doesn't accommodate smaller players as compared to yesteryear cause it does. You see smaller D men now. It's all about speed and pushing the pace up ice. Having a couple small players in the lineup is different than fielding a small team. I don't want a small team but at the same time there's a place in the lineup for a smaller guy if he's a gamer. Like when Fabbri came up his first year and gave the team a boost in the playoffs in 16. The Blues were a heavy team that year, but Fabbri fit in well and helped us out that post season quite a bit.

[noted]

Blues have DD arriving likely later this year and they have Dean, who ideally would fill #3C. Blues either bring in an older C/Wing during the transition or not, but why sign a guy like Rossi when the team is only a year away from Dvorsky?
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems a guy like Grandlund, if he still plays Center, would be a better way to allocate resources as we await DD/Dean.

I'm not sure what Dean has done to make you think he could fill the #3C any time soon. Dvorsky is also a bit farther away than I think many of us would like him to be. I don't want Rossi, but if they get another center, they are not blocking Dvorsky. Blues will be better off with Schenn moving to wing eventually also.

[seattleblue]

But there’s a reason why MIN is looking to trade him. Rossi was demoted to 4C in the playoffs because he was super ineffective once the physicality increased. Part of that could simply be that it was his first playoffs and he’ll learn and get better. But he’s always going to be 5’9”. Size matters, especially in the playoffs. And at C.

This is why I am not thrilled about taking a center under 6' asking him to play 2C and defend in the playoffs. Drafting Cootes isn't the same as drafting 5'9" but that's why I wanted to be sold on an extra defensive sense. If Cootes doesn't have an extra defensive sense why are we interested? Aren't we buying a similar situation?

[Army's Mom]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Bedard's 5'10", like 1 inch is a big deal? Today's game accommodates the smaller player now anyway.

In what ways has the game accommodated to smaller players? Especially in the playoffs?

And Bedard is a generational talent. So Rossi is both shorter and less skilled. And Bedard is going to have to improve at being a C if he wants to stick at C. His faceoff % this season was 38%. That’s simply unsustainable. And he’s destroyed on the defensive metrics too. Part of that is he’s simply 19 and he’ll get better but the size disadvantage sure doesn’t help and will be a detriment his entire career.

If Rossi had Bedard level skill then this would be a different conversation. But he doesn’t.

Nathan Walker is 5'9" and he plays big. You can't say the game today doesn't accommodate smaller players as compared to yesteryear cause it does. You see smaller D men now. It's all about speed and pushing the pace up ice. Having a couple small players in the lineup is different than fielding a small team. I don't want a small team but at the same time there's a place in the lineup for a smaller guy if he's a gamer. Like when Fabbri came up his first year and gave the team a boost in the playoffs in 16. The Blues were a heavy team that year, but Fabbri fit in well and helped us out that post season quite a bit.

Walker doesn't have to match up against the other team's top lines, and he's a winger. All the emphasis on speed and agility on offense means a center has that much more ice to cover and, when he gets beat, wingspan helps.

Yes, there are more successful 5'9" players today than yesterday. But that's less so among centers who have to carry the defensive responsibilities of a top 2 line.

I like Rossi. I'd be fine with Rossi as my 2c for about 5M, if I had an all world winger like Kaprizov to protect him. But on this team, at what he's asking for, and for what Guerin will want?

Pass.

[STL fan in MN]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Bedard's 5'10", like 1 inch is a big deal? Today's game accommodates the smaller player now anyway.

In what ways has the game accommodated to smaller players? Especially in the playoffs?

And Bedard is a generational talent. So Rossi is both shorter and less skilled. And Bedard is going to have to improve at being a C if he wants to stick at C. His faceoff % this season was 38%. That’s simply unsustainable. And he’s destroyed on the defensive metrics too. Part of that is he’s simply 19 and he’ll get better but the size disadvantage sure doesn’t help and will be a detriment his entire career.

If Rossi had Bedard level skill then this would be a different conversation. But he doesn’t.

Nathan Walker is 5'9" and he plays big. You can't say the game today doesn't accommodate smaller players as compared to yesteryear cause it does. You see smaller D men now. It's all about speed and pushing the pace up ice. Having a couple small players in the lineup is different than fielding a small team. I don't want a small team but at the same time there's a place in the lineup for a smaller guy if he's a gamer. Like when Fabbri came up his first year and gave the team a boost in the playoffs in 16. The Blues were a heavy team that year, but Fabbri fit in well and helped us out that post season quite a bit.

Walker is a 4th line winger we’re paying league minimum to. That is not remotely comparable to having that sized of a player as your 2C and paying him ~ $7M/year.

Fabbri was also a winger. And I’d bet his size sure didn’t help his injury risk. That’s also a risk with smaller players. Jaden Schwartz has always been one of my favorite players but there’s no denying he gets a lot of injuries. And there’s a reason why the Blues moved on from him when he reached UFA and could command quite a bit more money.

Can you articulate any of the ways in which the game accommodates small players now? Particularly in the playoffs? How are those small d-men doing in the playoffs?

[STL fan in MN]

But there’s a reason why MIN is looking to trade him. Rossi was demoted to 4C in the playoffs because he was super ineffective once the physicality increased. Part of that could simply be that it was his first playoffs and he’ll learn and get better. But he’s always going to be 5’9”. Size matters, especially in the playoffs. And at C.

This is why I am not thrilled about taking a center under 6' asking him to play 2C and defend in the playoffs. Drafting Cootes isn't the same as drafting 5'9" but that's why I wanted to be sold on an extra defensive sense. If Cootes doesn't have an extra defensive sense why are we interested? Aren't we buying a similar situation?

Cootes is 2-3 inches taller than Rossi. But it’s a fair point. Cootes projects more as a middle-6 player IMO. Rossi was drafted 9th overall. We have the 19th overall pick. If/when Cootes starts demanding $7M/year (or whatever the going rate is years from now), then I’ll hate it.

Cootes isn’t my ideal pick at 19 but in a weak draft, I see him as one of the better options that’s most likely to perhaps still be available.

[wiscrev]

Jaden Schwartz has always been one of my favorite players but there’s no denying he gets a lot of injuries. And there’s a reason why the Blues moved on from him when he reached UFA and could command quite a bit more money.

Loved Schwartz and still do, but didn't he want to leave to be closer to family after the death of his father? I got the impression that we wanted him to stay but the Blues knew that Seattle would take him in the expansion draft so we let him go, or is my memory failing.

[Old_Goat]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Bedard's 5'10", like 1 inch is a big deal? Today's game accommodates the smaller player now anyway.

In what ways has the game accommodated to smaller players? Especially in the playoffs?

And Bedard is a generational talent. So Rossi is both shorter and less skilled. And Bedard is going to have to improve at being a C if he wants to stick at C. His faceoff % this season was 38%. That’s simply unsustainable. And he’s destroyed on the defensive metrics too. Part of that is he’s simply 19 and he’ll get better but the size disadvantage sure doesn’t help and will be a detriment his entire career.

If Rossi had Bedard level skill then this would be a different conversation. But he doesn’t.

Nathan Walker is 5'9" and he plays big. You can't say the game today doesn't accommodate smaller players as compared to yesteryear cause it does. You see smaller D men now. It's all about speed and pushing the pace up ice. Having a couple small players in the lineup is different than fielding a small team. I don't want a small team but at the same time there's a place in the lineup for a smaller guy if he's a gamer. Like when Fabbri came up his first year and gave the team a boost in the playoffs in 16. The Blues were a heavy team that year, but Fabbri fit in well and helped us out that post season quite a bit.

Walker may be your 3rd Line Centerman if Sundqvist can't hold up, until we get a better C than Schenn, assuming Dean and/or Dvorsky aren't ready. I suppose if Faksa is still here you may see him at 3C TEMPORARILY with Walker at 4C? We'll see what happens...
Note, I just don't see Texier fitting in real well anywhere on our team. And this season likely will be Dean's last chance. Some great opportunities for prospects this Fall! They'll have to show a lot in a short pre-season camp.

[seattleblue]

The Blues expected Schwartz to depart in free agency (to Seatle) so they didn't protect him. Seattle didn't need to select him, they selected Dunn when Armstrong protected the guy who hit Thomas that time in the Finals, did you see that big hit? What a physical hitter! and crushed Armstrong's mind and thus our hopes for years.

[noted]

The Blues expected Schwartz to depart in free agency (to Seatle) so they didn't protect him. Seattle didn't need to select him, they selected Dunn when Armstrong protected the guy who hit Thomas that time in the Finals, did you see that big hit? What a physical hitter! and crushed Armstrong's mind and thus our hopes for years.

This is very true. Letting Dunn go was Doug's biggest mistake.

[STL fan in MN]

Jaden Schwartz has always been one of my favorite players but there’s no denying he gets a lot of injuries. And there’s a reason why the Blues moved on from him when he reached UFA and could command quite a bit more money.

Loved Schwartz and still do, but didn't he want to leave to be closer to family after the death of his father? I got the impression that we wanted him to stay but the Blues knew that Seattle would take him in the expansion draft so we let him go, or is my memory failing.

Probably a little of column A, a little of column B. We couldn’t really afford him but the Blues could’ve finagled the roster if they really wanted to keep him. But he became a UFA right when Seattle entered the league so that was poor timing as well (from the Blues perspective anyway).

Schwartz is still one of the top 1-3 players I’ve ever seen in the USHL (outside of NTDP players). He was simply electric as a 17 yr old and I still remember bumping into former Blues scout Mike Antonovich at a Bucs/Storm game that season. That’s what gave me a hint that perhaps the Blues liked Schwartz and I beyond thrilled when they selected him.

But he wasn’t a 5’9” center…

[Hockey Pete]

Who is the last successful NHL center that was 5’9”?

yanni gourde?

Ok last successful center 5’9” that played top 6 role?

Bedard's 5'10", like 1 inch is a big deal? Today's game accommodates the smaller player now anyway.

In what ways has the game accommodated to smaller players? Especially in the playoffs?

And Bedard is a generational talent. So Rossi is both shorter and less skilled. And Bedard is going to have to improve at being a C if he wants to stick at C. His faceoff % this season was 38%. That’s simply unsustainable. And he’s destroyed on the defensive metrics too. Part of that is he’s simply 19 and he’ll get better but the size disadvantage sure doesn’t help and will be a detriment his entire career.

If Rossi had Bedard level skill then this would be a different conversation. But he doesn’t.

Nathan Walker is 5'9" and he plays big. You can't say the game today doesn't accommodate smaller players as compared to yesteryear cause it does. You see smaller D men now. It's all about speed and pushing the pace up ice. Having a couple small players in the lineup is different than fielding a small team. I don't want a small team but at the same time there's a place in the lineup for a smaller guy if he's a gamer. Like when Fabbri came up his first year and gave the team a boost in the playoffs in 16. The Blues were a heavy team that year, but Fabbri fit in well and helped us out that post season quite a bit.

And THIS is my problem with Marco, he knows he's a 5'9" player so he HAS to put in the work to be more effective. When it comes to smaller players, I look at the "other" stats to see how effective they are at their position... SO let's look at Marco with that lens.

Face-Off - Strength and leverage matter more than size in this skill (and FO is a skill). Some of the very best FO guys I've ever seen were smaller guys that had strength and leverage (the minor leagues are FULL of them), and the poster child at the NHL level was Vlady Sobotka. He owned the FO circle in an era when teams were marching out monster centers. Marco's now two and a half seasons into the NHL and he has yet to dedicate himself to mastering this skill, and it's costing both him and his line possession time, which killed them in the playoffs.

GVA/TKA - IMO one of the most critical and underrated stats for a center. Last season Marco gave up the puck over three times more that he took it away, THAT'S BAD... On the flip side is a TJ Oshie (ok, 5'11", but smaller) who had seasons where he took the puck away four times more than he gave it up. His last season in the NHL was still a 2/1 ratio... Nothing is stopping Marco from being tenacious, and as a 5'9" player with his skill-set (solid skater and quick) who's not physical could contribute here, he chooses not too...

There are several other advance stats to point this out, but you're getting my drift. My problem with Marco isn't his size or his skill-set, it's his dedication to becoming a solid NHL center in areas he CAN improve and (with his skill-set) dominate. To date it's my opinion he chooses NOT too...