Barkov vs Thomas Selke award

[tubastarr]

So Barkov wins the Selke. I’m not saying Thomas should win it but Thomas was 21G, 60A for 81 pts. and was +20 on the season. Barkov was 20G, 51A for 71 pts and +1. He was only plus 1! How is this possible? Again, not saying Thomas should win it, but how does Barkov get rated higher than Thomas?

[Aesa]

So Barkov wins the Selke. I’m not saying Thomas should win it but Thomas was 21G, 60A for 81 pts. and was +20 on the season. Barkov was 20G, 51A for 71 pts and +1. He was only plus 1! How is this possible? Again, not saying Thomas should win it, but how does Barkov get rated higher than Thomas?

Easy answer.. Barkov advanced to the finals.

[seattleblue]

Just not a fan of NHL awards because they are for the lesser tier of competition, the regular season. To me the regular season is the warm up for real competition. I think awards should really hone in on who the best players actually are, and only the playoffs fully reveal that.

[Cardsfanforlife]

So Barkov wins the Selke. I’m not saying Thomas should win it but Thomas was 21G, 60A for 81 pts. and was +20 on the season. Barkov was 20G, 51A for 71 pts and +1. He was only plus 1! How is this possible? Again, not saying Thomas should win it, but how does Barkov get rated higher than Thomas?

To me stats adv stats don't tell the full Pic. I don't see barkov play a lot, but I bet if I watched u would see it.

I get lots of leafs games here. And I understand why matthews was up for the selke last yr.

[Harry S Deals]

Did you see Kyrou received one vote. May not seem like much but is a nod to the complete turnaround in his game, kudos to him for sticking with it being coachable and getting results

[theograce]

So Barkov wins the Selke. I’m not saying Thomas should win it but Thomas was 21G, 60A for 81 pts. and was +20 on the season. Barkov was 20G, 51A for 71 pts and +1. He was only plus 1! How is this possible? Again, not saying Thomas should win it, but how does Barkov get rated higher than Thomas?

Easy answer.. Barkov advanced to the finals.

Has nothing to do with that

[STL fan in MN]

So Barkov wins the Selke. I’m not saying Thomas should win it but Thomas was 21G, 60A for 81 pts. and was +20 on the season. Barkov was 20G, 51A for 71 pts and +1. He was only plus 1! How is this possible? Again, not saying Thomas should win it, but how does Barkov get rated higher than Thomas?

Easy answer.. Barkov advanced to the finals.

The voting takes place after the regular season and before the 1st playoff game though.

Barkov has the reputation as the best defensive forward. And +/- can be flawed. I’m sure the fancy stats show him as a defensive beast, especially when you factor in quality of competition.

But in the end, a lot of the end of season awards are based on just who is perceived to be the best or they just go with the guy with the most points. I hate to say it but a lot of writers don’t have a clue about the finer details of the game and are really only able to look at some of the high level stats and are easily influenced. I mean, some Nashville writer even have Kyrou a 5th place Selke vote. I commend Kyrou on improving his defensive play but 5th best defensive forward in the entire league he is not.

I think Thomas is underrated defensively. His defensive metrics and quality of competition are both sky high. And he still continually tilts the ice to where the Blues score 60-66% of the goals when he’s on the ice. He should get more Selke consideration but I’m also fine with Barkov winning it.

[bluetunehead]

Reputation goes a long way in these awards and Barkov (rightfully) has a stellar reputation as a defensive forward. +/- doesn't really tell the story the way the more advanced metrics do these days. Thomas would also get more love in a major market or if the Blues really became contenders again. I'm not sure he's Selke caliber right now, but he's certainly become an elite all-around player.

[theograce]

Reputation goes a long way in these awards and Barkov (rightfully) has a stellar reputation as a defensive forward. +/- doesn't really tell the story the way the more advanced metrics do these days. Thomas would also get more love in a major market or if the Blues really became contenders again. I'm not sure he's Selke caliber right now, but he's certainly become an elite all-around player.

Not just reputation but watching players. Kopitar went through this, as do many other players who aren’t as watched based on coverage, time of games etc.

[callitwhatyouwant]

Reputation goes a long way in these awards and Barkov (rightfully) has a stellar reputation as a defensive forward. +/- doesn't really tell the story the way the more advanced metrics do these days. Thomas would also get more love in a major market or if the Blues really became contenders again. I'm not sure he's Selke caliber right now, but he's certainly become an elite all-around player.

Reputation is definitely a huge part of it. The other big factor that we as fans don't see as easily is how often he is shifted against the other teams top line and how many defensive end shifts he has to start in. This goes for any player. Just from the eye test, it seems the Blues were going to throw Faksa or Schenn out there in the defensive end depending on scenario. UNLESS they had to have a faceoff late. That's when Thomas seemed to get the call or it was Faksa but usually both would be out there incase one got dumped off the dot.

Thomas was definitely taking the majority of offensive zone faceoffs. Blues were lucky to have 3 good guys on the dot this year. Faksa was at 57 Thomas at 55 and Schenn at 52. Only Sunny was at 45. I'm sure a majority of teams aren't as blessed to have 3 guys on the positive side of that.

[TheJackBurton]

In professional sports it's incredibly hard to win your first award because many of them are won on reputation.

Once you win however, you get mentioned quite regularly.

[bluetunehead]

Reputation goes a long way in these awards and Barkov (rightfully) has a stellar reputation as a defensive forward. +/- doesn't really tell the story the way the more advanced metrics do these days. Thomas would also get more love in a major market or if the Blues really became contenders again. I'm not sure he's Selke caliber right now, but he's certainly become an elite all-around player.

Reputation is definitely a huge part of it. The other big factor that we as fans don't see as easily is how often he is shifted against the other teams top line and how many defensive end shifts he has to start in. This goes for any player. Just from the eye test, it seems the Blues were going to throw Faksa or Schenn out there in the defensive end depending on scenario. UNLESS they had to have a faceoff late. That's when Thomas seemed to get the call or it was Faksa but usually both would be out there incase one got dumped off the dot.

Thomas was definitely taking the majority of offensive zone faceoffs. Blues were lucky to have 3 good guys on the dot this year. Faksa was at 57 Thomas at 55 and Schenn at 52. Only Sunny was at 45. I'm sure a majority of teams aren't as blessed to have 3 guys on the positive side of that.

Just cause I was curious.... Thomas had 53.2 - 46.8 zone starts. Barkov had 59.8 - 40.2.

Faksa's was skewed far more heavily to the dzone at over 70%, but that's because he was not really expected to provide any offense.

[Tony Palazzolo]

These awards are fine, but not exactly accurate. I can't speak to why Barkov would win over Thomas or any other player. I remember when Ryan Howard won the MVP over Pujols. Howard had something like 50 homeruns to Pujols 42. Every other metric Pujols was a superior player but the writers couldn't get past the homeruns.

[sdaltons]

Did you see Kyrou received one vote. May not seem like much but is a nod to the complete turnaround in his game, kudos to him for sticking with it being coachable and getting results

Saw this! Made me chuckle, but you are right that he does deserve credit for it. He's rounding out nicely and a great example to show that it helps to be patient with these young guys (you didn't need this reminder, Harry, but some here do).

[skilles]

The fact that either of them are even in the conversation should tell you all you need to know about these "awards"

[bluetunehead]

The fact that either of them are even in the conversation should tell you all you need to know about these "awards"

Most defensively responsible star forward