What Do They Need Most?

[Old_Goat]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

Indeed. And the question fits the definition of Quandary.
We'll see what happens...I look forward to a lot of discussion on this forum as it unfolds into this Fall.

[STL fan in MN]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

That's where I am. Not sure how the cap would work to do it but get a solid mid priced stop gap center and then seek a long term RHD.

Going to have to give to get on the latter for sure and yes I would have some untouchables in the process making it even more difficult.

Scary trade but I'd trust DA on this.

Yeah I agree with these takes. Immediate need for the next couple seasons is probably 2C until Dvorsky is ready. Longterm it's definitely RHD. We just don't have much in the pipeline there beyond Jiricek.

I think a great offseason for me that doesn't involve any huge swings would be finding a way to sign Duchene (around 2 years) and Fabbro (maybe 4-5) but those are going to be popular players come July 1. Both are probably more stopgap signings, but Fabbro is also young enough to be part of the core going forward if he continues to play like he did in Columbus.

If Duchene leaves Dallas to take top dollar then I bet he could get at least $7M for around 3 years. Fabbro, as a RD that’s just 26 (turns 27 just a few days before July 1) will be a hot commodity. I’ll guess 4 years x $5M for him.

In short, I don’t see how the Blues would afford these two in the event they were even willing to sign here.

[Ty Webb]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

[STL fan in MN]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

Seems lofty IMO. I really like Broberg and we got him for an absolute steal but I just don’t see that level of potential in him. It’d sure help solve an issue if he is able to develop to that caliber though.

[Ty Webb]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

Seems lofty IMO. I really like Broberg and we got him for an absolute steal but I just don’t see that level of potential in him. It’d sure help solve an issue if he is able to develop to that caliber though.

Agreed, lofty for sure. But I think his ceiling is at the level of Parayko. I may end up being wrong.

[bluetunehead]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

That's where I am. Not sure how the cap would work to do it but get a solid mid priced stop gap center and then seek a long term RHD.

Going to have to give to get on the latter for sure and yes I would have some untouchables in the process making it even more difficult.

Scary trade but I'd trust DA on this.

Yeah I agree with these takes. Immediate need for the next couple seasons is probably 2C until Dvorsky is ready. Longterm it's definitely RHD. We just don't have much in the pipeline there beyond Jiricek.

I think a great offseason for me that doesn't involve any huge swings would be finding a way to sign Duchene (around 2 years) and Fabbro (maybe 4-5) but those are going to be popular players come July 1. Both are probably more stopgap signings, but Fabbro is also young enough to be part of the core going forward if he continues to play like he did in Columbus.

If Duchene leaves Dallas to take top dollar then I bet he could get at least $7M for around 3 years. Fabbro, as a RD that’s just 26 (turns 27 just a few days before July 1) will be a hot commodity. I’ll guess 4 years x $5M for him.

In short, I don’t see how the Blues would afford these two in the event they were even willing to sign here.

Yeah, I'm not really expecting either. Certainly we would need a salary dump to try and afford both.

I think a trade is more likely this offseason, just going by Armstrong's history. And my suspicion is that the upgrade on D gets punted until next year unless he really starts making moves. There are a few different guys who could be picked up as a Middle 6 center option, so I suspect that's the big move of the offseason.

[skilles]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

Seems lofty IMO. I really like Broberg and we got him for an absolute steal but I just don’t see that level of potential in him. It’d sure help solve an issue if he is able to develop to that caliber though.

Agreed, lofty for sure. But I think his ceiling is at the level of Parayko. I may end up being wrong.

Thats a tough one as he is nothing like Parayko really IMO but I do think Broberg could explode offensively and absolutely be what most would consider #1. Kid was fire before getting injured.

[STL fan in MN]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

That's where I am. Not sure how the cap would work to do it but get a solid mid priced stop gap center and then seek a long term RHD.

Going to have to give to get on the latter for sure and yes I would have some untouchables in the process making it even more difficult.

Scary trade but I'd trust DA on this.

Yeah I agree with these takes. Immediate need for the next couple seasons is probably 2C until Dvorsky is ready. Longterm it's definitely RHD. We just don't have much in the pipeline there beyond Jiricek.

I think a great offseason for me that doesn't involve any huge swings would be finding a way to sign Duchene (around 2 years) and Fabbro (maybe 4-5) but those are going to be popular players come July 1. Both are probably more stopgap signings, but Fabbro is also young enough to be part of the core going forward if he continues to play like he did in Columbus.

If Duchene leaves Dallas to take top dollar then I bet he could get at least $7M for around 3 years. Fabbro, as a RD that’s just 26 (turns 27 just a few days before July 1) will be a hot commodity. I’ll guess 4 years x $5M for him.

In short, I don’t see how the Blues would afford these two in the event they were even willing to sign here.

Yeah, I'm not really expecting either. Certainly we would need a salary dump to try and afford both.

I think a trade is more likely this offseason, just going by Armstrong's history. And my suspicion is that the upgrade on D gets punted until next year unless he really starts making moves. There are a few different guys who could be picked up as a Middle 6 center option, so I suspect that's the big move of the offseason.

Agree a trade is more likely. Army seems to prefer spending assets to acquire players who signed contracts that were signed when the cap was lower and thus have a lower AAV than that player would likely get today if they signed a contract over signing UFAs.

Sometimes you can find an undervalued UFA and sign him for cheap (insert Jonah Hill Moneyball gif here) and sometimes it’s worth it to play UFA prices for the right guy but Army’s approach of trading for guys that are now making a bit less than market rate also makes sense.

[a smell of green grass]

If I asked my 6-year old daughter, what missing piece does Barbie need most, her right shoe or her purse, my daughter would know to ask "Where are we going, shopping or a wedding?"

So let me first complete the question like a hockey man would...

WHAT DO THEY NEED MOST TO WIN A CUP?

My answer:

As I often do, I will be Army's sock puppet. When Army exploded in early February, he said that "We've tweaked everything except the players that have been here the longest, and things aren't changing." I believe that problem still exists. Thomas and Kyrou absolutely disappeared in the Winnipeg home games, including Game 7. Your best players need to shine in the playoffs, not disappear. Army said that our guys are not consistent, and I agree with him.

The Blues need a 1C that will score/assist in big games.

[dhsux]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

Seems lofty IMO. I really like Broberg and we got him for an absolute steal but I just don’t see that level of potential in him. It’d sure help solve an issue if he is able to develop to that caliber though.

Agreed, lofty for sure. But I think his ceiling is at the level of Parayko. I may end up being wrong.

Thats a tough one as he is nothing like Parayko really IMO but I do think Broberg could explode offensively and absolutely be what most would consider #1. Kid was fire before getting injured.

I was just going to respond to Minnesota same thing before reading your words there.

He never really got back to his pre injury self...I have to wonder if he was hampered and under some duress. I don't know but it's certainly possible.

[dhsux]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

That's where I am. Not sure how the cap would work to do it but get a solid mid priced stop gap center and then seek a long term RHD.

Going to have to give to get on the latter for sure and yes I would have some untouchables in the process making it even more difficult.

Scary trade but I'd trust DA on this.

Yeah I agree with these takes. Immediate need for the next couple seasons is probably 2C until Dvorsky is ready. Longterm it's definitely RHD. We just don't have much in the pipeline there beyond Jiricek.

I think a great offseason for me that doesn't involve any huge swings would be finding a way to sign Duchene (around 2 years) and Fabbro (maybe 4-5) but those are going to be popular players come July 1. Both are probably more stopgap signings, but Fabbro is also young enough to be part of the core going forward if he continues to play like he did in Columbus.

If Duchene leaves Dallas to take top dollar then I bet he could get at least $7M for around 3 years. Fabbro, as a RD that’s just 26 (turns 27 just a few days before July 1) will be a hot commodity. I’ll guess 4 years x $5M for him.

In short, I don’t see how the Blues would afford these two in the event they were even willing to sign here.

Yeah, I'm not really expecting either. Certainly we would need a salary dump to try and afford both.

I think a trade is more likely this offseason, just going by Armstrong's history. And my suspicion is that the upgrade on D gets punted until next year unless he really starts making moves. There are a few different guys who could be picked up as a Middle 6 center option, so I suspect that's the big move of the offseason.

You may well be right about punting it off a year but have to think he will be digging this summer to see what he might possibly find.

[bluetunehead]

C is the most urgent need, D is the biggest need.

I think we can get both.

That's where I am. Not sure how the cap would work to do it but get a solid mid priced stop gap center and then seek a long term RHD.

Going to have to give to get on the latter for sure and yes I would have some untouchables in the process making it even more difficult.

Scary trade but I'd trust DA on this.

Yeah I agree with these takes. Immediate need for the next couple seasons is probably 2C until Dvorsky is ready. Longterm it's definitely RHD. We just don't have much in the pipeline there beyond Jiricek.

I think a great offseason for me that doesn't involve any huge swings would be finding a way to sign Duchene (around 2 years) and Fabbro (maybe 4-5) but those are going to be popular players come July 1. Both are probably more stopgap signings, but Fabbro is also young enough to be part of the core going forward if he continues to play like he did in Columbus.

If Duchene leaves Dallas to take top dollar then I bet he could get at least $7M for around 3 years. Fabbro, as a RD that’s just 26 (turns 27 just a few days before July 1) will be a hot commodity. I’ll guess 4 years x $5M for him.

In short, I don’t see how the Blues would afford these two in the event they were even willing to sign here.

Yeah, I'm not really expecting either. Certainly we would need a salary dump to try and afford both.

I think a trade is more likely this offseason, just going by Armstrong's history. And my suspicion is that the upgrade on D gets punted until next year unless he really starts making moves. There are a few different guys who could be picked up as a Middle 6 center option, so I suspect that's the big move of the offseason.

You may well be right about punting it off a year but have to think he will be digging this summer to see what he might possibly find.

Certainly possible, and I'm sure Armstrong will discuss all sorts of trade scenarios. We're at the point in their contracts where Faulk and Leddy can both be moved to about half of the league, and Leddy is in the final year of his deal anyway. But I do think that if there is one top level need right now it's center first.

[BluesDom]

Stay the course. We are building from within. Id like to see homegrown talent get infused each year going forward. Phase out the expiring contracts and replace them with new blood. Resist the urge to sign anyone.
Let Suter go.
I would consider a hockey trade if it makes sense.

Our d-under contract--7 guys--including Kessel. (Leddy and Fowler one year left) Parayko--3 years after this one; Faulk was good down the stretch-- i like him; Tucker--1 year after this one; Broberg is under contract--RFA after this year;

Left side: Broberg, Fowler, Tucker
Rightside: Parayko; Faulk; Leddy-Kessel.
I guess you could bring in a Right Handed D-man; lose Leddy. or go bigger and move Faulk and a package for a nice defenseman.

Bring in a #3 Center?--dont sign Faksa? Bring in a #2 Center? Move Schenn to 3rd line?

Maybe sign Faksa to a 2 year deal. Sundqvist is gone after this season. Dvorsky can replace him.

We will see how it all shakes out.

[HighStick]

We've all come to the general consensus that the Blues need a #2 center and a 2nd pairing RHD. With Bro and Holloway getting big raises at the end of next season Army's hands might be tied a bit. He might only be able to fill one of these needs this off-season.

So my question is who do the Blues need more? A 2nd line center or a 2nd pairing RD?

I personally think Faulk has been terrible the last few years and would look for a replacement there.

I'm not radically out of agreement but no, the Blues do not "need" a 2C. They need a depth center, ideally a 2C/3C. Even if Faksa signs up again they IDEALLY need more offense at 3C or even at 2C bumping Schenn down. Given the cap structure and other needs bumping Schenn down is a costly move but not out of the question.

On Schenn: I would advise everyone fawning over Sam Bennett to take a close look at the cards in-hand. My read is the concern with Schenn is primarily age-related decline, because those two guys play in much the same manner.

The real "hole" right now is 3C. I love me some Sunny but him playing a season between two of Neighbours, Bolduc, and Snuggerud figures to be a lost opportunity offensively.

No question the Blues could use a RH RD. They can live with Faulk at 2RD if they have a playable 3RD. Like with Broberg, go high-end if you can but definitely add a depth piece one way or the other.

Schenn is serviceable at 2C but he's not really good at it. He's kind of slow for his linemates. I'd rather they got a 2C that can bump Schenn down to the 3rd line.

[Ty Webb]

Short-term, as in next season, I’d say the bigger need is at C. We need a 2/3C to move Sunny down the lineup and bridge the gap to when Dvorsky should be ready to assume the role.

But 100% agree with Seattle on RD being the bigger longterm need. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Dante Fabbro would not solve the RD issue longterm. Dougie Hamilton would not solve the RD issue longterm. These guys would help in the short-term. They would probably be better than Faulk. But what the Blues truly need is someone at the caliber of Parayko if not higher. While the C hole is the more pressing need, RD is the bigger longterm need and the harder player to acquire. It may take years for the opportunity to arise to be able to acquire that player but if that opportunity comes before the C issue is resolved, the Blues should go for it. It’s that important longterm.

I’ll also mention that a right side of Parayko and even Faulk or someone like Fabbro would be fine if we had a stud LD. Either way, we really need a #1 d-man. Or at least another d-man that’s a borderline #1 like Parayko. So let’s say in a couple years Fowler moves on or down the lineup as age catches up to him, we could have something like:

Stud LD-Parayko
Broberg-Faulk/Fabbro/someone that’s a good #4
Fowler/Lindstein-decent 3RD

So the big defensive add doesn’t necessarily need to be on the right side but we definitely need another top d-man to be a Cup contender IMO. And as the team is structured today and with Faulk clearly regressing, RD seems to be the more obvious spot to go after. But with that position at such a premium, I’m simply presenting another option that’d get our defense to Cup caliber…it’d just take more finagling/more moving parts most likely.

I'm hoping Broberg can become the LD to pair with Parayko on the top pairing. Maybe as soon as next season. Then he takes over for Parayko as the #1 d-man for our team as 55 ages out of the #1 role.

Seems lofty IMO. I really like Broberg and we got him for an absolute steal but I just don’t see that level of potential in him. It’d sure help solve an issue if he is able to develop to that caliber though.

Agreed, lofty for sure. But I think his ceiling is at the level of Parayko. I may end up being wrong.

Thats a tough one as he is nothing like Parayko really IMO but I do think Broberg could explode offensively and absolutely be what most would consider #1. Kid was fire before getting injured.

Certainly not the same type of player as Parayko. My hope is that he can regain his pre-injury play; continue to improve; and eventually be our #1 d-man

[TBone]

Schenn is serviceable at 2C but he's not really good at it. He's kind of slow for his linemates. I'd rather they got a 2C that can bump Schenn down to the 3rd line.

I'm in agrement with several in this thread that the acquisition of a center is likely via trade for someone with a couple of years left on a contract who can act as a placeholder until Dvorsky's ready. So who fits the criteria we're talking about here and at what cost?

1. Ryan O'Reilly for sure. Two years remaining at $4.5 per. I see shades of David Perron in Zac Bolduc with that lightning release and one-timer from the face-off circle. Would temporarily keeping Schenn on the 2nd line where Holloway and Kyrou had success while seeing if ROR and Bolduc can capture that ROR-DP57 chemistry on the 3rd line be a decent play? If so, what would be a realistic trade to acquire him?

Who else would fit the bill as a cost controlled middle six center with 1-2 years remaining on their contract?