I didn't listen to the game but according to the box score Matz was the pitcher of record when the Cardinals got the 2 runs in the bottom of the 8th. Helsley pitched the 9th?
Shouldn't Matz get the win and Helsley the save?
Question - How did Helsley get the win?
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ScotchMIrish
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JohnTudor1985
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Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
The official scorer elected to give RH the win saying Matz was not effective in giving up a 4-1 lead (along with Leahy).
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ScotchMIrish
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Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Interesting. I thought it was automatic except when the starter didn't go 5.JohnTudor1985 wrote: ↑24 May 2025 21:14 pm The official scorer elected to give RH the win saying Matz was not effective in giving up a 4-1 lead (along with Leahy).
Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
In certain situations like this one the official scorer should be a lie to award the win to whoever makes most sense. A win for Libby and save for Helsley makes more sense. Or just don’t issue a win to anyone
Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Matz shoulda gotten the win. He pitched fine and the runs he allowed were mostly due to Walker's bad dive and the flubbed popup.
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RamFan08NY
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Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Agreed. The idea of giving the official scorer this much power to alter the rules based oh HIS opinion is wrong.
Every day of the season you see a RP get a win, even though he coughed up a lead, this is the first time I've ever seen where the OS changed that rule.
And oh, by the way, Helsley wasn't any more impressive than Matz.
Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Key pointRamFan08NY wrote: ↑25 May 2025 07:20 am And oh, by the way, Helsley wasn't any more impressive than Matz.
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Monsieur De Treville
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Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Agree. Matz was the victim of the Walker misplay AND a pop up which was lost in the sun.RamFan08NY wrote: ↑25 May 2025 07:20 amAgreed. The idea of giving the official scorer this much power to alter the rules based oh HIS opinion is wrong.
Every day of the season you see a RP get a win, even though he coughed up a lead, this is the first time I've ever seen where the OS changed that rule.
And oh, by the way, Helsley wasn't any more impressive than Matz.
But heck...
If anyone deserved a win, it was Libby. Another magnificent outing! Not sure why the official scorer can't give Libby the win after pitching 7 innings of one run ball.
Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
Who is the official scorer at the Cardinal Game? Does anyone even know?
Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
The decision went against the rules.
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Monsieur De Treville
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Re: Question - How did Helsley get the win?
There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective." (For example, if a reliever relinquished a one-run lead by allowing three runs, but was still in line for a win after his team scored four runs in the following inning -- that may qualify.) If that's the case, the scorer can award the win to a pitcher who followed that "brief and ineffective" pitcher. Which relief pitcher earns the win specifically is also up to the judgment of the official scorer.
Matz was charged with giving up one run.