2027 rotation has some promise

[hugeCardfan]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

[ICCFIM2]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

[Talkin' Baseball]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

We all know that injuries happen to pitchers, but that is interesting.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

Well, I think the big problems there are injuries. Let's pencil in Liberatore. Probably Pallante as well in the back of the rotation. And I think McGreevy has a decent floor, so throw him in as well. Not a bad base. Liberatore has a bit of a ceiling and the other two decent floors.

The problem with the rest is health. Some good ceilings, but hard to bet on. I'm the least down on Mathews, since the shoulder thing hasn't been like a chronic thing. Yea, it's scary and potentially can ruin his career, but maybe it's also just a blip. Hjerpe has a super high ceiling, but they treated him like a baby and now he's out for however long. Roby, who knows. Was a big injury risk when we got him and that hasn't changed. Less potential than those others as well, in my opinion.

The other guys? Hell I don't know. We'll see come 2027, I guess.

[hugeCardfan]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

Yes, but when Chris Carpenter was healthy we won....and could beat anybody. I proffered 9 starting pitcher options and intentionally excluded 2 others (Tink and Graceffo). Sure, one or two will likely be hurt, any given year. But, when you have serious talent, it's nice to have options and I think we will have some of that. We have a few others who will be threatening to start Zack Thompson, Ian Bedell, Showalter, Saladin, Rajcic etc. I just picked out my favorites.

By the way, both Mathews and Hence are back at it in rehab. We'll see how Hjerpe bounces back from TJ. There's a lot to be encouraged about moving forward.

[hugeCardfan]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

Well, I think the big problems there are injuries. Let's pencil in Liberatore. Probably Pallante as well in the back of the rotation. And I think McGreevy has a decent floor, so throw him in as well. Not a bad base. Liberatore has a bit of a ceiling and the other two decent floors.

The problem with the rest is health. Some good ceilings, but hard to bet on. I'm the least down on Mathews, since the shoulder thing hasn't been like a chronic thing. Yea, it's scary and potentially can ruin his career, but maybe it's also just a blip. Hjerpe has a super high ceiling, but they treated him like a baby and now he's out for however long. Roby, who knows. Was a big injury risk when we got him and that hasn't changed. Less potential than those others as well, in my opinion.

The other guys? Hell I don't know. We'll see come 2027, I guess.

Ixan has yet to show any health concerns. His improvement year over year, on the other hand, has been significant. Not sure about Chen Wei-Lin's health but glad to have him in the mix. His stuff is really good.

I think Liberator's ceiling is better than most are willing to admit. He's finally making consistent quality starts and his command has improved by leaps and bounds. Mathews control was out of whack after a huge start but it looks like the development team has done a nice job addressing that. I know that health has to enter into the equation. But, the raw product is there. We will have some very nice material to deal with for the next few years. I'm betting it gets even better a few years down the road as we seem to be taking international opportunities more seriously. I'm hoping we pick a starter as the # 5 pick this June who might be near ready by '27.

I like our chances to raise some eyebrows...soon.

[ICCFIM2]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

Yes, but when Chris Carpenter was healthy we won....and could beat anybody. I proffered 9 starting pitcher options and intentionally excluded 2 others (Tink and Graceffo). Sure, one or two will likely be hurt, any given year. But, when you have serious talent, it's nice to have options and I think we will have some of that. We have a few others who will be threatening to start Zack Thompson, Ian Bedell, Showalter, Saladin, Rajcic etc. I just picked out my favorites.

By the way, both Mathews and Hence are back at it in rehab. We'll see how Hjerpe bounces back from TJ. There's a lot to be encouraged about moving forward.

I am not saying you are wrong about the potential talent, I am simply pointing out that the injury rate for SP is astronomically high. I thought with CMart and Alex Reyes we would have a tandem that could win championships. It never materialized at all.

Yes, Carpenter is the perfect example of the injuries and the upside along with AW. They were both fantastic when healthy and they also missed several seasons during their prime which will definitely keep Carpenter out of the HOF and likely AW.

At this point in my life, I don't get too excited about SPs until they both make the MLs and pitch a season or two as a starter. Even though we got AW from the Braves, he is the last SP that came out of our minor league system and had a long career. CMart looked like he would, but did not due to injury. Lynn, Wacha, Jaime Garcia, Flaherty, Hudson, they all looked good / great for a while. Every single one of them got hurt. But, lets hope the future is better.

[CardsBest]

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

I think I have seen this movie before. One of the stars of the show was Alex Reyes another along with Carlos Martinez and Michael Wacha. Health injuries inconsistency plagued them. I dont get excited any more until I see a player perform at a much better than average performance in back to back years and is durable.

[hugeCardfan]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

Yes, but when Chris Carpenter was healthy we won....and could beat anybody. I proffered 9 starting pitcher options and intentionally excluded 2 others (Tink and Graceffo). Sure, one or two will likely be hurt, any given year. But, when you have serious talent, it's nice to have options and I think we will have some of that. We have a few others who will be threatening to start Zack Thompson, Ian Bedell, Showalter, Saladin, Rajcic etc. I just picked out my favorites.

By the way, both Mathews and Hence are back at it in rehab. We'll see how Hjerpe bounces back from TJ. There's a lot to be encouraged about moving forward.

I am not saying you are wrong about the potential talent, I am simply pointing out that the injury rate for SP is astronomically high. I thought with CMart and Alex Reyes we would have a tandem that could win championships. It never materialized at all.

Yes, Carpenter is the perfect example of the injuries and the upside along with AW. They were both fantastic when healthy and they also missed several seasons during their prime which will definitely keep Carpenter out of the HOF and likely AW.

At this point in my life, I don't get too excited about SPs until they both make the MLs and pitch a season or two as a starter. Even though we got AW from the Braves, he is the last SP that came out of our minor league system and had a long career. CMart looked like he would, but did not due to injury. Lynn, Wacha, Jaime Garcia, Flaherty, Hudson, they all looked good / great for a while. Every single one of them got hurt. But, lets hope the future is better.

Actually Wacha has been a pretty good example of someone who developed in our minor leagues who has enjoyed a nice career. He has won 104 games losing 66. His ERA+ has averaged over 130 the past 4 years and he’s been around 13 years. His 2012 postseason was incredible to include beating Cole, and Kershaw twice. He even beat the Sox once in the WS. Too bad he was injured but has been a consistent starter; having started 267 of the 288 he’s been in. He had he makings of an ace before the injury brought him down to a #3.

I think both Alcantara and Gallen began in our system and will have formidable careers.

I do get your point about our minuscule success via development. While once we were great…. Gibson, Carlton,…

But, I believe that the development folks are in place to change our fortunes.

[hugeCardfan]

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

I think I have seen this movie before. One of the stars of the show was Alex Reyes another along with Carlos Martinez and Michael Wacha. Health injuries inconsistency plagued them. I dont get excited any more until I see a player perform at a much better than average performance in back to back years and is durable.

Of course, skepticism is alive and healthy in the Cardinal community. Just sayin’, you heard it here first.

[2ninr]

I think op is right that we have enough good prospects in the minors to project a good homegrown staff in 2027. Everyone else has valid points concerning injury. I expect them to add to that list with any deadline trades they make and the draft. I also expect their developement to be much improved throughout the system with Bloom in charge and the new upgrades in the infrastructure and coaching.

[JDW]

Well, I'm more excited about the positional strength I think the Cards could have in 2027, with a lot of it being cost controlled to the extent I'd like to think the Cards will have the financial flexibility to add to any pitching issues/needs that crop up.
Noot, Donovan, Herrera, Scott, Winn, Crooks/Bernal and others could form a pretty good base to build on.
2026 could look pretty promising.
2027 hopefully will also, but too many variables to play out with the potential rotation to try and spend much time trying to predict. That said, also optimistic the Cards should be in good shape to try and form a solid rotation.
Then again, what are the chances there's a shutdown with failed negotiations coming soon? idk

[Monsieur De Treville]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

100%!

[passthebuck]

Will the Cards exercise Sonny's option?

I believe it is possible that Mathews and Liberatore will be vying for ace. Hjerpe will be a solid starter, but find himself behind Pallante, Roby and McGreevy; who may find themselves behind Ixan Henderson. And, let's see what's happening with Chin Wei Lin in 2 years.

I'd love to project Tink in there but we may find him dueling with Graceffo for closer/setup.

I think our pitching will be a real premium in 2 years and serious trouble for the rest of the NL.

2027 is a lifetime from now. Given the injury rate to pitchers, the burn out etc., I think it is hard to project that far into the future. Look at the Dodgers, they have 10 ML SPs under contract and always have trouble getting 5 onto the field. The Cards depth compared to that is sorely lacking. With all of Hjerpe, Mathews and Hence currently hurt, it is hard to project them as anything at all. Roby they are bringing along at a snails pace.

Gray has a $30M option in 2027 and a $5M buyout. If the Cards are contenders and he is still pitching well, that might be attractive. We should hope at this point that Liberatore and Palllante are still pitching well by 2027. If McGreevy joins them, then they need two more pitchers which could include Gray. But, I have strong doubts. If you go back to 2004, the only SP the Cards had that went 3+ seasons without a significant injury is Jeff Suppan. Every other single SP the Cards had in the last 20 years had a significant injury and missed significant time. That means the odds of Pallante, Liberatore and Gray all making it to 2027 is not that high...

Don't forget about Jason Marquis. The hardheaded guy went 5 straight seasons with 30+ starts and double digit wins. Not bad for a 5 guy who probably could have been more.

[sikeston bulldog2]

A league level Ace. We must aquire one. Libby Pallante McGreevy and a strong number five.

We compete in 2026. We become a power in 2027.

[rockondlouie]

Z. Gallen/30 yrs old in June (2019-2024: 3.29 ERA/1.135 WHiP/9.8 SO9) is a free agent.

Tough 2025 (5.25 ERA) but that ma just be a fluke and could keep him in BDWJr's price range.

I wonder if they'd use the Mikolas/Matz money ($30.1M) off the books this season and bring him back ($18-20M AAV?)?

(plus S. Gray's $35M falls off in end of the 2026 season)

-Libby
-Gallen

Could be a nice 1-2 at the top of the rotation!

-Mathews
-McGreevy
-Pallante