Cards need to decide whether trading Helsley or getting compensatory pick is better

[Futuregm2]

They will trade Helsley. As stated above, they will get a better return, and the return will be near major league ready.

Mick Abel ? Phillies

Looks like he’s back from the dead, not sure the Phillies would give him up, but maybe.

[TraveledLessRoad]

I'd hold onto him if we are even close to a playoff spot and then just take the comp pick. We aren't extending him, nor should we blow that kind of money on a closer. I'm also not convinced he'd return any kind of serious haul. It's one half season. Maybe you get a couple of high upside/longshot prospect, but I doubt we are getting a top 100 or anything. I'd love to be dead-(bleep) wrong here, btw.

[craviduce]

there's No Guarantee that a team will sign Helsley before opening day to a massive, extended contract with a QO hanging over his head.

The meta on relievers is "they're a dime a dozen". There was no Reliever Market this previous offseason....we got Maton 3 weeks into Spring Training.

With the work stoppage on the horizon and the shelf life of a reliever being 4 years, I think moving Helsely at the trade deadline will yield the better return, one that is more guaranteed. Teams are turning inhouse for their reliever needs, or retreads from Korea/Japan.

I don't want to be stuck with Compensation Round 3 pick at best, b/c we tied a QO to Helsley. It's more than likely we get nothing in return because of that albatross.

[sikeston bulldog2]

There is no universe that exists where a comp pick would even come remotely close to what a bidding war could look like.

The bidding war sounds good . The Brewers had a similar situation with All Star closer Josh Hader a few years ago . They traded Hader in a 4 for 1 deal to the Padres . That trade did not materialize what a lot people thought. Ask Brewer fans today if they got such a haul for Hader . They remain ticked today . I have Brewer buddies in Wis. The bidding war didn't result in what they thought.

Bingo

And at that time Hader was way more desirable than Helsley is today.

Fans who act like the Cardinals will get this awesome player(s) in return for Helsley (or Fedde or Matz or NADO) are dreaming.

It's nothing more than a lotto ticket prospect for those guys.

Then what’s the answer. You trade you get nothing; you let walk you get nothing.

[nighthawk]

I love this notion that a team just two games out from the lead in its division, tied for the best record in baseball over the last 20 games, playing at a .750 clip and allowing the fewest runs in the NL and third fewest in the majors in that time span is going nowhere and needs to move players immediately.

[Lloyd Braun]

There is no universe that exists where a comp pick would even come remotely close to what a bidding war could look like.

The bidding war sounds good . The Brewers had a similar situation with All Star closer Josh Hader a few years ago . They traded Hader in a 4 for 1 deal to the Padres . That trade did not materialize what a lot people thought. Ask Brewer fans today if they got such a haul for Hader . They remain ticked today . I have Brewer buddies in Wis. The bidding war didn't result in what they thought.

Milwaukee got Esteury Ruiz in the Hader trade, who was then pushed into the Atlanta/Oakland Sean Murphy trade to net William Contreras, the Brewers' best hitter(by OPS+) in '23 and '24. What the hell are they mad about?

He made it up or has stupid friends that easily influence his thinking. Either way, not a good look

[Red7]

The Royals got Cole Ragans from the Rangers for Aroldis Chapman who was forced to take a 1/10 deal from KC. That’s the return I want for last year’s saves leader.

The Cardinals are NOT getting a comp pick for Helsley because they’re not giving him a QO in the neighborhood of $22 million.

[TraveledLessRoad]

Cole Ragans isn't very good

[rockondlouie]

There is no universe that exists where a comp pick would even come remotely close to what a bidding war could look like.

The bidding war sounds good . The Brewers had a similar situation with All Star closer Josh Hader a few years ago . They traded Hader in a 4 for 1 deal to the Padres . That trade did not materialize what a lot people thought. Ask Brewer fans today if they got such a haul for Hader . They remain ticked today . I have Brewer buddies in Wis. The bidding war didn't result in what they thought.

Bingo

And at that time Hader was way more desirable than Helsley is today.

Fans who act like the Cardinals will get this awesome player(s) in return for Helsley (or Fedde or Matz or NADO) are dreaming.

It's nothing more than a lotto ticket prospect for those guys.

Then what’s the answer. You trade you get nothing; you let walk you get nothing.

Yea it's a c r a p shoot when you aren't dealing premium talent other than Helsley and even he might not bring back anyone of value.

Perhaps you get lucky, who knows?

[AnExParrot]

Cole Ragans isn't very good

He was very good immediately following the trade, and he certainly was very good last year. Top-5 CYA vote getter(4th), all-star, and lead the league in K/9 in '24. And his 14.2 K/9 so far this season would lead the league, but I guess he doesn't qualify at this point.

[Futuregm2]

Cole Ragans isn't very good

I hope you’re being sarcastic. He has a 3.23 ERA and 2.72 FIP for the Royals since the trade with 384 K’s in 303 IP.

This year he has a 1.99 FIP and 72 K’s in 45 IP.

[Talkin' Baseball]

There is no universe that exists where a comp pick would even come remotely close to what a bidding war could look like.

The bidding war sounds good . The Brewers had a similar situation with All Star closer Josh Hader a few years ago . They traded Hader in a 4 for 1 deal to the Padres . That trade did not materialize what a lot people thought. Ask Brewer fans today if they got such a haul for Hader . They remain ticked today . I have Brewer buddies in Wis. The bidding war didn't result in what they thought.

Bingo

And at that time Hader was way more desirable than Helsley is today.

Fans who act like the Cardinals will get this awesome player(s) in return for Helsley (or Fedde or Matz or NADO) are dreaming.

It's nothing more than a lotto ticket prospect for those guys.

Then what’s the answer. You trade you get nothing; you let walk you get nothing.

Of course, those aren't the only possible outcomes.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

This would be beyond foolish. This team may not even be a playoff team. Certainly fair to question their chances of going deep into October even if they do make the post season. I'm sick and tired of "anything can happen" in this unfairly balanced game.

They need to maximize their young return of potential rather then get swept out of the first round.

I just don't think that any team in baseball, if they're in contention for their division, and the Cardinals may be on top of the division by then, are going to trade their closer. Not unless they have someone immediately able to jump into that role.

You can say that they're not going to go anywhere, but if they're that competitive and then they just give it up and sell, I don't know. If you think fan apathy is bad right now, I think that will really kill what good will this team has earned with their play this season.

I think this poster said it pretty well:

I love this notion that a team just two games out from the lead in its division, tied for the best record in baseball over the last 20 games, playing at a .750 clip and allowing the fewest runs in the NL and third fewest in the majors in that time span is going nowhere and needs to move players immediately.

[Futuregm2]

This would be beyond foolish. This team may not even be a playoff team. Certainly fair to question their chances of going deep into October even if they do make the post season. I'm sick and tired of "anything can happen" in this unfairly balanced game.

They need to maximize their young return of potential rather then get swept out of the first round.

I just don't think that any team in baseball, if they're in contention for their division, and the Cardinals may be on top of the division by then, are going to trade their closer. Not unless they have someone immediately able to jump into that role.

You can say that they're not going to go anywhere, but if they're that competitive and then they just give it up and sell, I don't know. If you think fan apathy is bad right now, I think that will really kill what good will this team has earned with their play this season.

I think this poster said it pretty well:

I love this notion that a team just two games out from the lead in its division, tied for the best record in baseball over the last 20 games, playing at a .750 clip and allowing the fewest runs in the NL and third fewest in the majors in that time span is going nowhere and needs to move players immediately.

Brewers did it in 2022. It cost them the division that year though. They went into a tailspin after trading Hader. But they also used what they got from the deal to land William Contreras the next offseason.

[ramfandan]

There is no universe that exists where a comp pick would even come remotely close to what a bidding war could look like.

The bidding war sounds good . The Brewers had a similar situation with All Star closer Josh Hader a few years ago . They traded Hader in a 4 for 1 deal to the Padres . That trade did not materialize what a lot people thought. Ask Brewer fans today if they got such a haul for Hader . They remain ticked today . I have Brewer buddies in Wis. The bidding war didn't result in what they thought.

Bingo

And at that time Hader was way more desirable than Helsley is today.

Fans who act like the Cardinals will get this awesome player(s) in return for Helsley (or Fedde or Matz or NADO) are dreaming.

It's nothing more than a lotto ticket prospect for those guys.

Then what’s the answer. You trade you get nothing; you let walk you get nothing.

Yea it's a c r a p shoot when you aren't dealing premium talent other than Helsley and even he might not bring back anyone of value.

Perhaps you get lucky, who knows?

It sure is a crapshoot. Using my example of Josh Hader. You are correct his value was higher then than Helsley now especially since he had additional year left on contract unlike Helsley who becomes free agent right away.
One would think a 4 for 1 trade would always be better than a single draft pick (comp) but if you compared those 4 guys vs. one pick..better thsn2nd rounder. ..would you rather have those 4 or 1 Masyn Winn.(was 2nd rounder )
Baseball execs would say. OMG Give me Winn over those 4 !
That 30th some extra pick may be gold !

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Brewers did it in 2022. It cost them the division that year though. They went into a tailspin after trading Hader. But they also used what they got from the deal to land William Contreras the next offseason.

That's the thing. Logically, I get it. I just don't think it's going to happen. The time for selling was last deadline and/or last offseason or earlier. We may be even better right now had we did that. But yea, if we lose a bunch of games and we're out of it by then, sell away for sure.