Matthews

[aslord]

Armstrong seems to enjoy trading with Toronto. What would it take?
I'd be ok with moving Dvorsky in a deal for AM. What else do we need to add to Dvorsky and a first? Kyrou? Surely that's overpayment enough? 13.25M is a lot to pay for a single player, but IDC, it's not my $$. We need a C and he's possibly there to be had if the offer is right.

[MandatoryDenial]

I would pass. Whenever I see Austin, there is just something about him that makes me believe he has the wrong attitude about everything. Just pass on the core of Toronto IMHO.

[moose-and-squirrel]

Armstrong seems to enjoy trading with Toronto. What would it take?
I'd be ok with moving Dvorsky in a deal for AM. What else do we need to add to Dvorsky and a first? Kyrou? Surely that's overpayment enough? 13.25M is a lot to pay for a single player, but IDC, it's not my $$. We need a C and he's possibly there to be had if the offer is right.

DVO, Thomas and Parayko.. pass

[blues2112]

No
Movement
Clause

[blackinkbiz]

I would pass. Whenever I see Austin, there is just something about him that makes me believe he has the wrong attitude about everything. Just pass on the core of Toronto IMHO.

He always has that same look on his face that's somewhere between indifference or a scowl. Of course, you have a very bleedrish troll screenname so me responding is somewhere between adventurous and stupid.

[DawgDad]

League should help engineer a trade of Matthews to Phoenix where could save the franchise. On, wait . . .

Send them Alexandrov and a 1st for Matthews 50% retained. He can bridge a center spot until DD is ready then let him walk. By then Blues will need the cap for extensions and defense. Anything more he's just not worth it, let the Leafs or Vegas or Boston or the Rags overpay.

[Lone_Ranger]

Armstrong seems to enjoy trading with Toronto. What would it take?
I'd be ok with moving Dvorsky in a deal for AM. What else do we need to add to Dvorsky and a first? Kyrou? Surely that's overpayment enough? 13.25M is a lot to pay for a single player, but IDC, it's not my $$. We need a C and he's possibly there to be had if the offer is right.

The guys going to score over 700 goals. The cost would be enormous. Pass

[bluetunehead]

Matthews isn’t going anywhere. Marner and Tavares are both UFAs so if there is a desire for change from the Toronto front office it’s going to start there.

[rbirules]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

[moose-and-squirrel]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

[Cardsfanforlife]

Lots of issues with this. Massive cap hit, his numbers seem to go down when checking is tight in the playoffs. He scored one big time goal this yr. To me that's not a guy u trade for with 15m cap hit. Could it be leafs? Could be but it could be when checking is tight he can't get his shot off. Until he proves otherwise that's a big hurdle. Then the nmc and other issues.

[DawgDad]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

All conversations would start (and end) with Thomas. Thomas, Snuggerud or Bolduc, and the 1st? But, I'm not their GM.

I think that trade would instantly make Toronto better, if that triggered Marner re-upping. What it would do for St. Louis would be up to Matthews.

[rbirules]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

Of course a mid 1st and DVO isn't going to be accepted, nor the offer. yes, the other pieces would have to be valuable but would vary depending on the timeline Toronto is pursuing.

But the trade also has to make sense for the Blues which means you can't blow up the team in the short term adding Matthews. In part because we still have to catch up a bit to other top teams that could maybe offer a very good player in a trade where Matthews is only a slight upgrade, but that's all they need. Not sure many contenders actually meet that criteria but just putting it out there.

I would not offer Thomas, Binnington, Parayko, Fowler, Broberg, or Holloway. Anybody else is on the table. Do they want more picks because they traded away all of theirs? I'd include future 1sts no problem. Do they want prospects like recent first round picks? Do they want young NHL players like Neighbors, Bolduc, or Snuggy? Do they want to compete quickly and want a player that can step in day one and play on a top line or two, like Kyrou or Buch?

Would Toronto accept a package of some combination of those assets? Not sure. Would it be the best offer they could get? Again, not sure. Kyrou + is brought up all the time in discussions for Brady, and many posters scoff at paying that much for a winger who is signed for 3 years (vs. Kyrou's six remaining years of control) at a similar rate. Matthews is also signed for only three years, but at $5.1M more than Kyrou. With the cap space you are getting Kyrou plus money to sign a decent player or to upgrade from a decent to a good FA with that space. How tempting would Kyrou, DVO, and a 1st be for Toronto? What teams can and would top that offer? I don't know, honestly curious, I know a poster in one of the other threads broke down a lot of potential offers for Matthews (except one from the Blues). What about DVO, our 1st, and a young player (pick a winger: Neighbors, Bolduc, Snuggy)? That gives Toronto a ton of cap space (they might have to take a short term contract back, or we dump that in a separate move), a player for 2025, a player that's probably ready in 2025 or 2026 in DVO and a 1st. Again, I'm sure other teams can match or exceed that, but would they?

Would Toronto trade Matthews in the East? Would they trade him in Canada? Would Matthews accept a trade to a non-playoff team? Would the team have to be "more of a contender" than the Blues? How many of those teams have the cap space to take on Matthews, even with the rising cap, without gutting their roster?

[rbirules]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

All conversations would start (and end) with Thomas. Thomas, Snuggerud or Bolduc, and the 1st? But, I'm not their GM.

I think that trade would instantly make Toronto better, if that triggered Marner re-upping. What it would do for St. Louis would be up to Matthews.

And if that's the case, and there's nothing stopping Toronto from demanding that in return, then it ends there. Thomas pushes me past my puke point in a trade . . . for pretty much anybody (probably a select few exceptions).

[DawgDad]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

All conversations would start (and end) with Thomas. Thomas, Snuggerud or Bolduc, and the 1st? But, I'm not their GM.

I think that trade would instantly make Toronto better, if that triggered Marner re-upping. What it would do for St. Louis would be up to Matthews.

And if that's the case, and there's nothing stopping Toronto from demanding that in return, then it ends there. Thomas pushes me past my puke point in a trade . . . for pretty much anybody (probably a select few exceptions).

Yeah. For real. Thomas is a 95-point 200' center. Matthews is ASSOGG's dream. Realistically, though, I think that's what it would take. If Matthews was McDavid or MacKinnon I probably make that trade. I'm not sold he's in their class, but maybe he is and I have recency bias?

In the real world, this ain't happening.

[rbirules]

Ignoring, for a moment, the real world hurdles of Toronto trading him (are they entering a re-whatever?) and Matthews waiving his NMC, it's an interesting thought exercise.

As I mentioned in a post recently, the Blues have two windows of contention. An immediate one that is for the next year or two (while Binner is under contract, Fowler is here and/or extended, and before Parayko gets too far into his 30s, and while Thomas and Kyrou are at their peak), and then another window that is probably 3-4 years from starting (these could be contiguous and we just transition smoothly from one to the other) when our young players become the new core and our existing core transitions to more complementary players due to age.

Matthews fits our first window perfectly. He plays our position of biggest need and is an elite option at that position. Having him and Thomas gives you two very good centers both of whom are defensively responsible. He's under contract for only three years at a rate that is right in line for elite players now, and will look even more reasonable in the next few years. If the Blues want to jump a few spots ahead in their building of a competitive roster (not just 5% better but 10-15%) Matthews is the player that moves the needle for this roster to get close to the best in the west . . . depending on the cost.

That's where this thought exercise gets tricky. What is Toronto's motivation? Are they retooling the roster with cap space and assets from Matthews trade to build around Nylander (Marner and Taveras are FAs)? Are they entering a quick rebuild and want to be competitive again after a lone down year or two? Are they cleaning house and blowing everything up? That answer would affect what type of assets they would be looking to acquire in return.

I think our 1st and a high end prospect (Dvo, most likely) would be a starting point for any trade package, and then you go from there. We almost certainly have to send a contract back, or move one in another deal to fit Matthews in under the cap, so that has to be considered.

Again, incredibly unlikely to happen, but an interesting thought exercise/fantasy.

if you're TOR would you take a mid/late 1st and DVO for matthews? even if that is 'just to start' the add would have to be tremendous

so if YOU are TOR, what would you take for him?

All conversations would start (and end) with Thomas. Thomas, Snuggerud or Bolduc, and the 1st? But, I'm not their GM.

I think that trade would instantly make Toronto better, if that triggered Marner re-upping. What it would do for St. Louis would be up to Matthews.

And if that's the case, and there's nothing stopping Toronto from demanding that in return, then it ends there. Thomas pushes me past my puke point in a trade . . . for pretty much anybody (probably a select few exceptions).

Yeah. For real. Thomas is a 95-point 200' center. Matthews is ASSOGG's dream. Realistically, though, I think that's what it would take. If Matthews was McDavid or MacKinnon I probably make that trade. I'm not sold he's in their class, but maybe he is and I have recency bias?

In the real world, this ain't happening.

MacKinnon isn't coming here, and McDavid is a FA in 13 months so I wouldn't trade Thomas for him. Draisaitl is interesting. He's older but is signed for 8 years, albeit at $14M, but he's a legit MVP candidate for now. It would be a short term move (despite having a longer contract) to trade Thomas for Leon. Thomas' contract is so valuable with the rising cap.