Everybody and I mean Everybody (even you Mel) were wrong about this team

[stormtime]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Everyone is shocked, to be sure. That said, while it is an amazing run, they haven't done anything yet. This team could easily lapse and this could be their high water mark. They easily could not be a playoff team, or perhaps even worse, barely sneak in and lose 2-3 and be at home......all the while missing a gold mine for Helsley, and smaller pots of silver for Fedde, Matz and maybe Nolan.

[blackinkbiz]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Not everyone ...

Just the woe-is-me-I-only-like-vets-my-life-sucks-so-do-the-Cardinals crowd. hehe! Okay, that's hyperbole but there are more than a few highly obnoxious eternal pessimists floating around here. I said quite simply, this team has more than enough young talent to compete.

"If the kids hit, they can win 90."

I will admit I thought we needed Gorman and Walker to find their 2023 form or better. Had no clue Ivan would be on pace to become the next Pujols. I also said, if they don't hit, Cards might lose 100. That's looking less likely each day but still a possibility.

And when did Oli put down the iPad and start using his brain? Pallente throws 7 and Graceffo finishes the final 2. Last year and before, he would have been on his 2nd or 3rd reliever by the 7th inning.

[thetank2]

The bottom line is that, to this point, the Cardinals have a number of players who are:

1) exceeding rather modest expectations, or
2) confirming that they can meet some pretty high expectations.

Donovan, Winn, Nootbaar, Herrera, Scott, Saggese, Pozo, Liberatore, Matz, etc. are all probably in one of those two categories.

This year has been about wanting to see that development show on the field from a lot of the younger players, and so far that are seeing that. But they hope to see more of it out of Walker and Gorman as well.

Aren't you glad now they didn't sell off everyone like you wanted matt?

Not necessarily. I still don't expect them to be a serious NL pennant or WS contender by the time the season ends. But I'm encouraged for the future.

I'm not saying they will either matt but we have to acknowledge they're playing well both against teams above .500 (playoff teams) and on the road meaning "you never know".

Still think they'll look to deal NADO mid season if he wants to go as BDWJr wants to shed that big salalry.

Helsey I'm now not so sure, especially if they're still in contention. The fan base would really revolt if he's dealt when they're contending given there's no solid replacement.

Fedde, he could be replaced by McGreevy so he may be dealt.

Fun season thus far, hope it last.

I would simply say that, by waiting to trade certain players, if they end up trading them mid-season - I don't think Arenado, Gray, Fedde, or Helsley have increased their value. Maybe Matz and/or Mikolas has, but probably only marginally. And they still have to dodge significant injuries to any of them if they are going to hold their value.

The players with NTCs aren't going anywhere. We can QO Helsley and Fedde since we don't need any position players and are unlikely to get a future SP.

[Cranny]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Everyone is shocked, to be sure. That said, while it is an amazing run, they haven't done anything yet. This team could easily lapse and this could be their high water mark. They easily could not be a playoff team, or perhaps even worse, barely sneak in and lose 2-3 and be at home......all the while missing a gold mine for Helsley, and smaller pots of silver for Fedde, Matz and maybe Nolan.

The gold mine and pots of silver may already be here with all of our younger players.

[stormtime]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Everyone is shocked, to be sure. That said, while it is an amazing run, they haven't done anything yet. This team could easily lapse and this could be their high water mark. They easily could not be a playoff team, or perhaps even worse, barely sneak in and lose 2-3 and be at home......all the while missing a gold mine for Helsley, and smaller pots of silver for Fedde, Matz and maybe Nolan.

The gold mine and pots of silver may already be here with all of our younger players.

Perhaps but there is no way we re-sign Helsley, and that may actually be a wise move based on what we can get out of him in July. The others are more questionable but still might bring a sweet reward and quite honestly, I'm not sure we finish the season that much differently if we trade them all.

[OldRed]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Everyone is shocked, to be sure. That said, while it is an amazing run, they haven't done anything yet. This team could easily lapse and this could be their high water mark. They easily could not be a playoff team, or perhaps even worse, barely sneak in and lose 2-3 and be at home......all the while missing a gold mine for Helsley, and smaller pots of silver for Fedde, Matz and maybe Nolan.

The gold mine and pots of silver may already be here with all of our younger players.

And it may have been another plus without Arenado.

[thetank2]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Everyone is shocked, to be sure. That said, while it is an amazing run, they haven't done anything yet. This team could easily lapse and this could be their high water mark. They easily could not be a playoff team, or perhaps even worse, barely sneak in and lose 2-3 and be at home......all the while missing a gold mine for Helsley, and smaller pots of silver for Fedde, Matz and maybe Nolan.

The gold mine and pots of silver may already be here with all of our younger players.

Agree Cranny. Unless we get a future can't miss SP it's not worth adding another position player when JJ and Sagesse are in the minors. Fedde and Helsley can turn down their QO so they can get multi-year multi-million $ contracts. Arenado isn't going to be sent with $20 million for low level prospects.

[Melville]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Gosh, something of an honor to be the only person with a shout out in your thread title.
But, it is never about me.
Only and always about the game.
Not everyone got it wrong.
In fact, I have been correct.
I said the team would likely win around 78 games - but could surprise if a couple of players exceeded expectations and could have a winning record (there were a few others who said the same).
Let's break it down.
I said the rotation was good enough to compete - and it has been.
Virtually everyone said it was a mistake to hang onto Fedde and Helsley - whereas I alone said it would be foolish to trade either one until seeing where the team stood in July.
I have warned several times not to be surprised to see Mo hang onto some of the pending FA's the entire year and instead settle for comp draft picks.
Correct on each point.
Many questioned the infield - particularly moving Contreras to 1B.
I said Contreras would be fine at 1b and was the established leader of the team (sure enough, as goes Contreras, so goes the team).
I said the infield, with so much depth and options, was a strength and was plenty good enough for a competitive team.
Right about both.
Folks said Pages was not a MLB player.
I said he was the team's best catcher and would again take over the primary starting role because the pitching staff wanted and trusted him.
Also said Herrera would not improve enough defensively and said his only path to being an MLB regular would be based on his bat - and that he must add power.
Which is exactly what has happened - albeit in a small sample size.
I was right.
Concerning the outfield, I said it would be a major weakness unless a couple of players emerged to exceed expectations.
Thank goodness Scott has emerged as a budding star (astute readers will recall there should NOT be a ST competition for CF) and the middling Mootbaar has (so far) stayed out of the emergency room.
I said I was more concerned with Walker than any other of the young players - and he has indeed struggled.
Now, what else?
Oh yes.
Since refusing to report to Houston, N/A has remained with STL and as a result the opportunities for Gorman have been too limited to draw any conclusions.
Still, N/A's attitude seems to be recovering from the previous toxic culture - and that has certainly been evident in his efforts on defense in particular (the bat is better than last year but will never be what it once was).
As for The Marmol being a good manager - he's not.
Happy to take any questions you or others may have.

[Cusecards]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Gosh, something of an honor to be the only person with a shout out in your thread title.
But, it is never about me.
Only and always about the game.
Not everyone got it wrong.
In fact, I have been correct.
I said the team would likely win around 78 games - but could surprise if a couple of players exceeded expectations and could have a winning record (there were a few others who said the same).
Let's break it down.
I said the rotation was good enough to compete - and it has been.
Virtually everyone said it was a mistake to hang onto Fedde and Helsley - whereas I alone said it would be foolish to trade either one until seeing where the team stood in July.
I have warned several times not to be surprised to see Mo hang onto some of the pending FA's the entire year and instead settle for comp draft picks.
Correct on each point.
Many questioned the infield - particularly moving Contreras to 1B.
I said Contreras would be fine at 1b and was the established leader of the team (sure enough, as goes Contreras, so goes the team).
I said the infield, with so much depth and options, was a strength and was plenty good enough for a competitive team.
Right about both.
Folks said Pages was not a MLB player.
I said he was the team's best catcher and would again take over the primary starting role because the pitching staff wanted and trusted him.
Also said Herrera would not improve enough defensively and said his only path to being an MLB regular would be based on his bat - and that he must add power.
Which is exactly what has happened - albeit in a small sample size.
I was right.
Concerning the outfield, I said it would be a major weakness unless a couple of players emerged to exceed expectations.
Thank goodness Scott has emerged as a budding star (astute readers will recall there should NOT be a ST competition for CF) and the middling Mootbaar has (so far) stayed out of the emergency room.
I said I was more concerned with Walker than any other of the young players - and he has indeed struggled.
Now, what else?
Oh yes.
Since refusing to report to Houston, N/A has remained with STL and as a result the opportunities for Gorman have been too limited to draw any conclusions.
Still, N/A's attitude seems to be recovering from the previous toxic culture - and that has certainly been evident in his efforts on defense in particular (the bat is better than last year but will never be what it once was).
As for The Marmol being a good manager - he's not.
Happy to take any questions you or others may have.

“I”
“I”
“I”
“Never about me”
“I”
“I”
“Me”
“I”
I’m good.......no questions here....LMAO.
Easy
Obvious
Correct

[imetsatchelpaige]

We have not played a single game against the NL west ….. the best division in baseball… there is still a long way to go

There’s that brilliant beacon of shining morning light known as Web7!!!

[Melville]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Gosh, something of an honor to be the only person with a shout out in your thread title.
But, it is never about me.
Only and always about the game.
Not everyone got it wrong.
In fact, I have been correct.
I said the team would likely win around 78 games - but could surprise if a couple of players exceeded expectations and could have a winning record (there were a few others who said the same).
Let's break it down.
I said the rotation was good enough to compete - and it has been.
Virtually everyone said it was a mistake to hang onto Fedde and Helsley - whereas I alone said it would be foolish to trade either one until seeing where the team stood in July.
I have warned several times not to be surprised to see Mo hang onto some of the pending FA's the entire year and instead settle for comp draft picks.
Correct on each point.
Many questioned the infield - particularly moving Contreras to 1B.
I said Contreras would be fine at 1b and was the established leader of the team (sure enough, as goes Contreras, so goes the team).
I said the infield, with so much depth and options, was a strength and was plenty good enough for a competitive team.
Right about both.
Folks said Pages was not a MLB player.
I said he was the team's best catcher and would again take over the primary starting role because the pitching staff wanted and trusted him.
Also said Herrera would not improve enough defensively and said his only path to being an MLB regular would be based on his bat - and that he must add power.
Which is exactly what has happened - albeit in a small sample size.
I was right.
Concerning the outfield, I said it would be a major weakness unless a couple of players emerged to exceed expectations.
Thank goodness Scott has emerged as a budding star (astute readers will recall there should NOT be a ST competition for CF) and the middling Mootbaar has (so far) stayed out of the emergency room.
I said I was more concerned with Walker than any other of the young players - and he has indeed struggled.
Now, what else?
Oh yes.
Since refusing to report to Houston, N/A has remained with STL and as a result the opportunities for Gorman have been too limited to draw any conclusions.
Still, N/A's attitude seems to be recovering from the previous toxic culture - and that has certainly been evident in his efforts on defense in particular (the bat is better than last year but will never be what it once was).
As for The Marmol being a good manager - he's not.
Happy to take any questions you or others may have.

“I”
“I”
“I”
“Never about me”
“I”
“I”
“Me”
“I”
I’m good.......no questions here....LMAO.
Easy
Obvious
Correct

Being helpful by nature, allow me to give a bit of advice on another topic as well.
You might want to contact tech support about your computer.
The keyboard appears to be stuttering.

[Cusecards]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

Gosh, something of an honor to be the only person with a shout out in your thread title.
But, it is never about me.
Only and always about the game.
Not everyone got it wrong.
In fact, I have been correct.
I said the team would likely win around 78 games - but could surprise if a couple of players exceeded expectations and could have a winning record (there were a few others who said the same).
Let's break it down.
I said the rotation was good enough to compete - and it has been.
Virtually everyone said it was a mistake to hang onto Fedde and Helsley - whereas I alone said it would be foolish to trade either one until seeing where the team stood in July.
I have warned several times not to be surprised to see Mo hang onto some of the pending FA's the entire year and instead settle for comp draft picks.
Correct on each point.
Many questioned the infield - particularly moving Contreras to 1B.
I said Contreras would be fine at 1b and was the established leader of the team (sure enough, as goes Contreras, so goes the team).
I said the infield, with so much depth and options, was a strength and was plenty good enough for a competitive team.
Right about both.
Folks said Pages was not a MLB player.
I said he was the team's best catcher and would again take over the primary starting role because the pitching staff wanted and trusted him.
Also said Herrera would not improve enough defensively and said his only path to being an MLB regular would be based on his bat - and that he must add power.
Which is exactly what has happened - albeit in a small sample size.
I was right.
Concerning the outfield, I said it would be a major weakness unless a couple of players emerged to exceed expectations.
Thank goodness Scott has emerged as a budding star (astute readers will recall there should NOT be a ST competition for CF) and the middling Mootbaar has (so far) stayed out of the emergency room.
I said I was more concerned with Walker than any other of the young players - and he has indeed struggled.
Now, what else?
Oh yes.
Since refusing to report to Houston, N/A has remained with STL and as a result the opportunities for Gorman have been too limited to draw any conclusions.
Still, N/A's attitude seems to be recovering from the previous toxic culture - and that has certainly been evident in his efforts on defense in particular (the bat is better than last year but will never be what it once was).
As for The Marmol being a good manager - he's not.
Happy to take any questions you or others may have.

“I”
“I”
“I”
“Never about me”
“I”
“I”
“Me”
“I”
I’m good.......no questions here....LMAO.
Easy
Obvious
Correct

Being helpful by nature, allow me to give a bit of advice on another topic as well.
You might want to contact tech support about your computer.
The keyboard appears to be stuttering.

Thanks for your concern but my keyboard and computer are just fine!
Always a good laugh....keep it up Sideshow!
BTW.....you desperately need some new MATERIAL.
Easy
Obvious
Correct

[sikeston bulldog2]

Good news. Development. Reference the players- those bright diamonds once were stone; flowing down a silver stream. Yes those bright diamonds once were stone……

[Futuregm2]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

I had them winning 90 games and the division over the Cubs. I still think it happens.

[Futuregm2]

How did we all get it so wrong?
Is Marmol actually a baseball genius?
Not one person or pundit predicted this.
Including me. I have to admit that.
But I am happy to have been wrong.
Others not so much.
They'd rather be correct and have the team suffer.
WOW
GO CARDS GO!!!

MARMOL 2026 and beyond!!!

1. It's May 17. Plenty of time for this team to flourish or tank. Wouldn't plan a victory parade just yet.

2. Pitching is much, much better than anyone could've predicted.

Really though? The only surprise is Libby.

Pallante - worse ERA than last year
Fedde - slightly worse ERA than last year
Gray- worse ERA than last year
Mikolas- Better ERA than last year

Bullpen was considered a strength coming in and has had some not so great moments.

[rockondlouie]

The bottom line is that, to this point, the Cardinals have a number of players who are:

1) exceeding rather modest expectations, or
2) confirming that they can meet some pretty high expectations.

Donovan, Winn, Nootbaar, Herrera, Scott, Saggese, Pozo, Liberatore, Matz, etc. are all probably in one of those two categories.

This year has been about wanting to see that development show on the field from a lot of the younger players, and so far that are seeing that. But they hope to see more of it out of Walker and Gorman as well.

Aren't you glad now they didn't sell off everyone like you wanted matt?

Not necessarily. I still don't expect them to be a serious NL pennant or WS contender by the time the season ends. But I'm encouraged for the future.

I'm not saying they will either matt but we have to acknowledge they're playing well both against teams above .500 (playoff teams) and on the road meaning "you never know".

Still think they'll look to deal NADO mid season if he wants to go as BDWJr wants to shed that big salalry.

Helsey I'm now not so sure, especially if they're still in contention. The fan base would really revolt if he's dealt when they're contending given there's no solid replacement.

Fedde, he could be replaced by McGreevy so he may be dealt.

Fun season thus far, hope it last.

I would simply say that, by waiting to trade certain players, if they end up trading them mid-season - I don't think Arenado, Gray, Fedde, or Helsley have increased their value. Maybe Matz and/or Mikolas has, but probably only marginally. And they still have to dodge significant injuries to any of them if they are going to hold their value.

Gray has the NTC, he's not going anywhere per his own admission.

Fedde is throwing the ball well:

Last 7 GS:
2.70 ERA

given his low salary he'd be an easy trade and has value, more than Mikolas who has the NTC also and likely won't waive.

I don't know if they trade Matz even though they should given his dual value as a SR or LHRP but he might stay the season given that value if the Cards stay in contention.