It's Time, Oli - Swap Herrera and Arenado

[hullie]

So basically we would have no run producers after the 5th spot. Bad idea.

So it’s better to have the less run producer batting clean up so you have the better run producers getting fewer at bats at 5th and 6th? That’s a worse idea and makes zero sense. Let’s give the worst hitter more at bats so the better hitters get fewer at bats lol

It’s working. How did Contreras do batting second compared to how he’s doing now? How was Winn doing leading off in ST compared to now? Right or wrong my opinion is don’t mess with it. It’s getting the desired results for the team.

[hullie]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

BULLHOCKEY !!! Marmol needs to do the obvious move to make the offense even better.

He did when he benched Burleson.

[hullie]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

I get it, because the only reason that I have not yet gotten some Winn and/or Scott II gear is because I don't want to curse them, but I don't want my manager to be a puss like me.

And Herrera (1.387) has (drat) near double the OPS that Arenado (.712) has!!! This is not a rip Arenado thread. His defense is great. He has gotten some big hits for us. But Herrera had an .847 OPS last June, a .878 OPS in an (extremely) limited August, and a 1.099 OPS last September, so it's not like it's coming out of nowhere that this guy hits. So let's take advantage of the fact that this guy hits.

You make a great point and you are absolutely right. I would just wait until they drop maybe 5 of 6 or something like that. These guys are feeding off each other right now and I just don’t think you mess with that.

[Ozziesfan41]

So basically we would have no run producers after the 5th spot. Bad idea.

So it’s better to have the less run producer batting clean up so you have the better run producers getting fewer at bats at 5th and 6th? That’s a worse idea and makes zero sense. Let’s give the worst hitter more at bats so the better hitters get fewer at bats lol

It’s working. How did Contreras do batting second compared to how he’s doing now? How was Winn doing leading off in ST compared to now? Right or wrong my opinion is don’t mess with it. It’s getting the desired results for the team.

It’s working in a small sample size but dumb will not continue to work. Contreras was sucking in the 2 hole people continued to say lower him in the lineup cardinals were losing oli finally moved him and he started crushing and cards started winning because he was picking up the runs Arenado wasn’t. Winn was hitting well lower in the order last season oli moved him to lead off he sucked there oli never moved him. This season he started hitting well lower in the lineup then moved him to the 2 hole and hes kept hitting. Arenado is hitting .242 with .712 ops this season sure the cardinals are over coming his putridness but it doesn’t make it a good idea to keep hitting him cleanup just because. They could hit the pitcher instead of DH and the team might play well in a small sample size and people will say hey it’s working keep doing it but dumb always catches up

[hullie]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

Come on now. Should have been 1 for 4 with 2 rbis

[Ozziesfan41]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

Come on now. Should have been 1 for 4 with 2 rbis

He was too dumb to touch first so that’s not much of a he did good

[hullie]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

Come on now. Should have been 1 for 4 with 2 rbis

He was too dumb to touch first so that’s not much of a he did good

You’re right. Happens all the time to him. Should just DFA him. He’s a loser.

[ecleme22]

Here’s an idea: Don’t change a [fork]ing thing. It’s working.

[hullie]

Here’s an idea: Don’t change a [fork]ing thing. It’s working.

Hey a vote for me

[blackinkbiz]

Here’s an idea: Don’t change a [fork]ing thing. It’s working.

Hey a vote for me

Yep, if they start slumping or (gulp) go into a tailspin, then you modify.

Don't fix it if it's not broken.

[ecleme22]

Here’s an idea: Don’t change a [fork]ing thing. It’s working.

Hey a vote for me

Yep, if they start slumping or (gulp) go into a tailspin, then you modify.

Don't fix it if it's not broken.

Yeah, go on a losing streak, need a spark, then it makes sense.

For now, leave Herrera alone.

[RamFan08NY]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

To answer your question. No. What good is it to have 2-3 weak bats slumped together at the backend of the lineup? The team is scoring runs in bushels right now. Herrera has come up in some big spots with runners on base. Keep it going. Somebody needs to knock in the 3-4-5 guys, and IH has been doing just that.

IMO, the best constructed lineup is one where you can put pressure on the opposing pitcher, and defense every inning. This isn't LL baseball where you put your 3 automatic outs together, and basically sacrifice one inning, every time through the lineup. In other words, it's working, why mess with it?

[Ozziesfan41]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

To answer your question. No. What good is it to have 2-3 weak bats slumped together at the backend of the lineup? The team is scoring runs in bushels right now. Herrera has come up in some big spots with runners on base. Keep it going. Somebody needs to knock in the 3-4-5 guys, and IH has been doing just that.

IMO, the best constructed lineup is one where you can put pressure on the opposing pitcher, and defense every inning. This isn't LL baseball where you put your 3 automatic outs together, and basically sacrifice one inning, every time through the lineup. In other words, it's working, why mess with it?

So if oli hit Walker clean up for 10 games and he sucked but won the games the “logic” would be keep doing it because they won even though it’s stupid? lol or if they hit a pitcher cleanup and he went hit less people would say keep doing it because they QO lol doesn’t make any logical sense but okay

[RamFan08NY]

I object. No I strenuously object. If they were losing I would say of course. Baseball players minds are very weird. Very superstitious people. It ain’t broke no need to fix it. Let it ride.

Just have a look at the box score... isn't it a little ridiculous to plop an 0-4 in the middle of a 3-5, 2-5 and 3-4? Wouldn't you rather have the 0-4 at the end and the 3-4 after the 3-5?

To answer your question. No. What good is it to have 2-3 weak bats slumped together at the backend of the lineup? The team is scoring runs in bushels right now. Herrera has come up in some big spots with runners on base. Keep it going. Somebody needs to knock in the 3-4-5 guys, and IH has been doing just that.

IMO, the best constructed lineup is one where you can put pressure on the opposing pitcher, and defense every inning. This isn't LL baseball where you put your 3 automatic outs together, and basically sacrifice one inning, every time through the lineup. In other words, it's working, why mess with it?

So if oli hit Walker clean up for 10 games and he sucked but won the games the “logic” would be keep doing it because they won even though it’s stupid? lol or if they hit a pitcher cleanup and he went hit less people would say keep doing it because they QO lol doesn’t make any logical sense but okay

Come on Ozzie. Now you're just making up extreme examples. You might as well said "if everyone hit with their opposite hand, but keep winning, do you stick with it?"

Comparing Walker to Arenado is similar to that. NA is hitting 60 points higher, and his OPS is 200 higher than Walker's. NA has proven he can produce in that spot. All I'm saying is, the 3-4-5 slots have been giving Herrera just as many run producing opportunities as he would have 2 slots up, and he is making those ABs count. It takes a talented bat to produce when there is basically little threat behind him. Herrera is providing huge production from the 6 hole. That is a huge amount of pressure on a pitcher to get through what is normally the meat of the order and he's facing the 6 hitter, and it doesn't get easier.

[JDW]

So Herrera has 18 RBI's in 43 AB's. Let's see, that'd be a 180 RBI rate with 430 AB's. Unsustainable, sure, but it might show IH is currently getting RBI opportunities. It is kinda fun watching Contreras run the bases. Actually quite entertaining.

Maybe make the lineup switch after trading Arenado before the deadline? What, no longer happening? Well, they'll probably be scared to now, ok, but he's not likely to trend better for any significant stretch moving forward. I don't think it'd be giving up on this season. He now looks to be a +2.5 type WAR player. Meh. Current .709 OPS, meh.
His defense is good, but hyped up some as he makes some plays look harder than they need to be. Lots of close plays at 1B b/c he often runs with the ball before throwing. Not the way you'd teach it and how does that hold up when playoff pressure is added? Got some Rockie fans telling me not so good in SSS, ha.

[Bad14]

This is not an insult to Nolan Arenado. He is still a good player. He just isn't the man for cleanup anymore. He'd make a fine #6 hitter.

Look at what you've got in Ivan Herrera. He just keeps hitting. What do you have to lose? You might (bleep) off Arenado, but he might not be around much longer either, if he ends up getting traded.

I've been easier on you than a lot of people, Oli. My biggest gripe with you is your favorites with certain players. Let me like you. I want to like you. Do the right thing.

Agreed