Is Masyn Winn on the verge of Superstardom?

[JDW]

Awesome having him play SS for the STL Cardinals.
Not going to try and guess how big a star he becomes, instead hoping the FO is focused on trying to extend him past his arb. years similar to what KC did with Witt Jr.

[Carp4Cy]

Interesting info on Edgar. I always loved that guy. As to my comments above on Winn, he has tremendous value on D. He is becoming the next Ozzie at SS on D. Yeah, I said that out loud. We all watch this kid daily and he is just nails on D. He is to SS what Nado was to 3B in his absolute prime. Winn has matured greatly in the past season. When he first arrived he would uncork that cannon arm on most every throw. Now he only throws just as hard as he has to on any given play. His range is superb and he gets to things in such a way that we take it for granted watching him. I think he is the best defensive SS in the NL that I see regularly, and there are some other very, very good ones. Because I wrote that he will make a key error tomorrow, but whatever.

At the plate, he makes adjustments. You can see it all the time. He started out the year trying to hit a 5 run homer most every AB. Then he dialed it down and now he is hitting, and only taking the home run swing when appropriate. Yes, moving him to the two hole seemed to really help him. He rarely has two bad ABs in a row. Yes, it happens, but he doesn't get a string of them in a row. He adjusts, which is the sign of a mature player. The kid seems to be entering his prime. I think if he just continues the D, and hits 15-20 dingers with high OBP that is all he needs to be to have tremendous value to the team. He doesn't need to try to hit dingers at the expense of line drives to all fields and high OBP. With RISP I will take a lined single to RF every time over trying to hit it out and failing.

I sure wouldn't want to have to choose the NL starting SS for the all star game. There are a few and Winn is in the conversation. It isn't all about hitting. The guy puts a defensive show on every night. He and VSII have been really fun to watch this season... and Herrera...that guy's ABs are not quite like Albert, but you always stop and watch him hit.

We’re going to have some very good SS’s who rarely have an AS appearance because the position is so deep.

Perdomo: 2.1 fWAR .287/.391/.447
Lindor: 1.9 fWAR .297/.364/.491
Winn: 1.4 fWAR .281/.371/.465
Betts: 1.4 fWAR .266/.343/.429
Abrams: 1.3 fWAR .311/.375/.525
Swanson: 1.3 fWAR .246/.306/.461
Turner: 1.1 fWAR .299/.357/.377
De La Cruz: 0.6 fWAR .250/.323/.407

And you’ve got players like Adames and Bogaerts as well.

Then consider in the AL where you’ve got Witts, Henderson, Seager, plus a guy like Jacob Wilson emerging. Volpe and Peña as well.

Agreed. Amazing how deep that position has become over the past decade really. The days of the great defensive SS who is a poor hitter are over. Now they do it all. Fans choose the guy with the offensive numbers for the ASG mostly. Winn has good numbers, but not top of the list. But his D is certainly top few in baseball at SS. For an old school fan like me... I know the value of that nightly. He can change the flow of a game with his glove.

Which is fair given the event. For the 4-5 innings the starter will play in the ASG, they need some offense, not a 0.5% greater chance of fielding 1 extra ground ball.

[Ozziesfan41]

I dont know about superstar but he can definitely be one of the better short stops in the majors. He hit 15 homeruns as a 22 year old so 20-25 Homeruns could definitely be achievable as he matures. He needs to work on stealing bases for sure. The big question on if it happens or not is is the back problem going to be something that pops up once or twice every season and lands him on IL or slows his production.

Maybe his back issues factor into his non running.

Agree which is why i said the big question would be if the back issues are going to be persistent and if it slows his production which if hes not running because of it then its definitely slowing his production

[Monsieur De Treville]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

[Monsieur De Treville]

I dont know about superstar but he can definitely be one of the better short stops in the majors. He hit 15 homeruns as a 22 year old so 20-25 Homeruns could definitely be achievable as he matures. He needs to work on stealing bases for sure. The big question on if it happens or not is is the back problem going to be something that pops up once or twice every season and lands him on IL or slows his production.

Maybe his back issues factor into his non running.

Agree which is why i said the big question would be if the back issues are going to be persistent and if it slows his production which if hes not running because of it then its definitely slowing his production

My feeling is Oli doesn't particularly enjoy the running game. Now Scott hits 9th and Noot is a master at taking pitches...but I believe it's as simple as Oli doesn't like the risk associated with stolen bases.

[Futuregm2]

I dont know about superstar but he can definitely be one of the better short stops in the majors. He hit 15 homeruns as a 22 year old so 20-25 Homeruns could definitely be achievable as he matures. He needs to work on stealing bases for sure. The big question on if it happens or not is is the back problem going to be something that pops up once or twice every season and lands him on IL or slows his production.

Maybe his back issues factor into his non running.

Agree which is why i said the big question would be if the back issues are going to be persistent and if it slows his production which if hes not running because of it then its definitely slowing his production

My feeling is Oli doesn't particularly enjoy the running game. Now Scott hits 9th and Noot is a master at taking pitches...but I believe it's as simple as Oli doesn't like the risk associated with stolen bases.

Which is why he is Mo’s manager, both risk adverse.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

But see MDT, they're the true definition of SUPERSTARS who've achieved SUPERSTARDOM.

When someone starts to ask if Winn is in their class, aka SUPERSTARS, then I'm going to push back since he's NOT a SUPERSTAR or even on the "verge" of becoming one.

A "STAR", maybe in a few years and he has to make some all-star teams before he even reaches that level.

But when he reaches B. Witt, Jr level (30 HR's/100 RBI's/35+ SB's/.900 OPS and a Gold Glove), you asked who else he's one and there are others I'm sure you're aware of, then we can say he's not only on the verge but has reached SUPERSTARDOM.

As always I respect all others opinions but on this mine is NO he's not on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

But see MDT, they're the true definition of SUPERSTARS who've achieved SUPERSTARDOM.

When someone starts to ask if Winn is in their class, aka SUPERSTARS, then I'm going to push back since he's NOT a SUPERSTAR or even on the "verge" of becoming one.

A "STAR", maybe in a few years and he has to make some all-star teams before he even reaches that level.

But when he reaches B. Witt, Jr level (30 HR's/100 RBI's/35+ SB's/.900 OPS and a Gold Glove), you asked who else he's one and there are others I'm sure you're aware of, then we can say he's not only on the verge but has reached SUPERSTARDOM.

As always I respect all others opinions but on this mine is NO he's not on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

You have drawn a line in the sand. 30 HR 100 RBI, etc. a plateau. A level. Cross this line and it’s superstar territory. Anything less is Star territory. No buffer. No room for a band of excellence. No bandwidth.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

But see MDT, they're the true definition of SUPERSTARS who've achieved SUPERSTARDOM.

When someone starts to ask if Winn is in their class, aka SUPERSTARS, then I'm going to push back since he's NOT a SUPERSTAR or even on the "verge" of becoming one.

A "STAR", maybe in a few years and he has to make some all-star teams before he even reaches that level.

But when he reaches B. Witt, Jr level (30 HR's/100 RBI's/35+ SB's/.900 OPS and a Gold Glove), you asked who else he's one and there are others I'm sure you're aware of, then we can say he's not only on the verge but has reached SUPERSTARDOM.

As always I respect all others opinions but on this mine is NO he's not on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

You have drawn a line in the sand. 30 HR 100 RBI, etc. a plateau. A level. Cross this line and it’s superstar territory. Anything less is Star territory. No buffer. No room for a band of excellence. No bandwidth.

That is solid definition of SUPERSTARDOM from a SS BDog.

Unless we see another Ozzie Smith like SS and the guy wins 13 Gold Gloves, nearly 2500 hits and 580 SB's, then that's MY benchmark for SUPERSTARDOM.

But NO a player doesn't have to hit all those levels, but he sure has to come close.

Just an example of a current SS who is indeed a SUPERSTAR.

A player can still reach STAR level and even the Hall of Fame, re: Alan Trammell, and still not reach SUPERSTARDOM.

No one would consider Trammel a SUPERSTAR (I don't even consider him a Hall of Famer).

Let's see if Winn can make an all-star team before we put him on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

JMO

[sikeston bulldog2]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

But see MDT, they're the true definition of SUPERSTARS who've achieved SUPERSTARDOM.

When someone starts to ask if Winn is in their class, aka SUPERSTARS, then I'm going to push back since he's NOT a SUPERSTAR or even on the "verge" of becoming one.

A "STAR", maybe in a few years and he has to make some all-star teams before he even reaches that level.

But when he reaches B. Witt, Jr level (30 HR's/100 RBI's/35+ SB's/.900 OPS and a Gold Glove), you asked who else he's one and there are others I'm sure you're aware of, then we can say he's not only on the verge but has reached SUPERSTARDOM.

As always I respect all others opinions but on this mine is NO he's not on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

You have drawn a line in the sand. 30 HR 100 RBI, etc. a plateau. A level. Cross this line and it’s superstar territory. Anything less is Star territory. No buffer. No room for a band of excellence. No bandwidth.

That is solid definition of SUPERSTARDOM from a SS BDog.

Unless we see another Ozzie Smith like SS and the guy wins 13 Gold Gloves, nearly 2500 hits and 580 SB's, then that's MY benchmark for SUPERSTARDOM.

But NO a player doesn't have to hit all those levels, but he sure has to come close.

Just an example of a current SS who is indeed a SUPERSTAR.

A player can still reach STAR level and even the Hall of Fame, re: Alan Trammell, and still not reach SUPERSTARDOM.

No one would consider Trammel a SUPERSTAR (I don't even consider him a Hall of Famer).

Let's see if Winn can make an all-star team before we put him on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

JMO

Your standards are solid. I was digging at a line, a line of departure. Below this line- no. Above -yes.

I was using the band of excellence as an example- a figmantary space where the over all GPA is higher than some of the performance scores, as an example.

You explained that meeting most, not all, the numbers is required. That correlates with the Band of Excellence.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't say "Superstardom", that's reserved for the elite of the elite.

But he's on the right path to perhaps make an all-star game (or two or more?) one day.

He was 6th among NL players in bWAR last year and he’s taken the hitting game to another level this year.

Since April 1st Winn is hitting .320/.405/.530. Those are ELITE numbers. And he has 0 errors to boot with stellar defense.

Superstardom players to me are S. Ohtani, A. Judge, ect...........

Winn's not in that class.

Stardom?

Perhaps

SUPERSTARDOM?

Nope

Well gee...of course Winn is not Ohtani or Judge. Who is (other than Ohtani or Judge)?

That doesn't mean he's not on the verge of being one of the game's biggest stars. He still has a ways to go, but at 23, I don't believe it's not a possibility.

But see MDT, they're the true definition of SUPERSTARS who've achieved SUPERSTARDOM.

When someone starts to ask if Winn is in their class, aka SUPERSTARS, then I'm going to push back since he's NOT a SUPERSTAR or even on the "verge" of becoming one.

A "STAR", maybe in a few years and he has to make some all-star teams before he even reaches that level.

But when he reaches B. Witt, Jr level (30 HR's/100 RBI's/35+ SB's/.900 OPS and a Gold Glove), you asked who else he's one and there are others I'm sure you're aware of, then we can say he's not only on the verge but has reached SUPERSTARDOM.

As always I respect all others opinions but on this mine is NO he's not on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

You have drawn a line in the sand. 30 HR 100 RBI, etc. a plateau. A level. Cross this line and it’s superstar territory. Anything less is Star territory. No buffer. No room for a band of excellence. No bandwidth.

That is solid definition of SUPERSTARDOM from a SS BDog.

Unless we see another Ozzie Smith like SS and the guy wins 13 Gold Gloves, nearly 2500 hits and 580 SB's, then that's MY benchmark for SUPERSTARDOM.

But NO a player doesn't have to hit all those levels, but he sure has to come close.

Just an example of a current SS who is indeed a SUPERSTAR.

A player can still reach STAR level and even the Hall of Fame, re: Alan Trammell, and still not reach SUPERSTARDOM.

No one would consider Trammel a SUPERSTAR (I don't even consider him a Hall of Famer).

Let's see if Winn can make an all-star team before we put him on the verge of SUPERSTARDOM.

JMO

Your standards are solid. I was digging at a line, a line of departure. Below this line- no. Above -yes.

I was using the band of excellence as an example- a figmantary space where the over all GPA is higher than some of the performance scores, as an example.

You explained that meeting most, not all, the numbers is required. That correlates with the Band of Excellence.

Now let's beat the Royals!

[Absolut]

Huh. Some Cardinal fans with the position a ss must hit homers to be a superstar. Now I’ve seen it all.