cards are one serious MOTO bat away from having a pretty good offense

[thetank2]

The mood hS changed.

[Shady]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 163 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

You've really missed my point. Batting Contreras/Herrera 5th/6th is nowhere near the same as batting Ohtani leadoff.

I am all for moving Nado down in the lineup because Contreras /Herrera get more plate appearances batting higher .
Personally based on his stats , I would slot Arenado 6th and even 7th when Burley is in lineup.
With current guys what is your recommended lineup ?

Against RHP. Contreras/Herrera 4 or 5. Take your pick. Burleson 6, Arenado 7 is the way to go. Walker or Saggese 8. It probably won't happen. But it would be good lineup construction, right now.

[OldRed]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

They need a true “Ace” pitcher, but we know they are hard to find on a trade.

[BMoreCardsFan]

The MOTO designation (middle of the order bat ) is more old-school thinking these days. Have you noticed more and more top hitters higher up in the lineup than years ago .
Here's why ...
Teams want their BEST hitters getting the most AT BATS as possible during a season . Ex. Dodgers with Ohtani Leads off or 2nd

Here is the average number of AB each lineup position will get over a 162 game schedule

1 - 753 2 737 3 718 4 708 5 687 6 669 7 60 8 632 9 611

So you can see if an Ohtani bats 3rd or 4th (MOTO spots ) he will get up to bat 35 times less ( 1st compared to 3rd ) or45 times less than 4th spot .

Now in Cardinals case , they like that Scott batting 9th gets to have Nootbar bat right after him during the evening but over the course or our season our good hitter, biggest base stealing threat will come to the plate 611 times OVER 100 less times than the top of lineup guys.

OP literally said adding a 900 OPS guy to the current lineup and we'd be a great offense; we are pretty good right now.
He's not arguing about where your best hitter would be in the lineup.
I get your point, a prime Goldie level hitter would be hitting 2nd in this lineup, not 3rd or cleanup.

[Ozziesfan41]

lots of good complementary hitters...herrera looks like a solid bat...winn,noot,contreras etc....throw a 35 homer 900 OPS into the mix and this might be a dangerous group

Agree but I think they could also have a very good offense if they sent Gorman and Walker down and replaced them with even decent bats. Having two useless bats is still a handicap

[Cranny]

Would like to see Walker and Gorman spend some time being instructed by Edmonds and/or Holliday.
Might work wonders.

[vegascardsfan5890]

Paul Goldschmidt is having a ridiculously good year. He was available in the offseason

[ICCFIM2]

lots of good complementary hitters...herrera looks like a solid bat...winn,noot,contreras etc....throw a 35 homer 900 OPS into the mix and this might be a dangerous group

Agree but I think they could also have a very good offense if they sent Gorman and Walker down and replaced them with even decent bats. Having two useless bats is still a handicap

I have not seen too many games where both Walker and Gorman were in the line-up at the same time. So it is one bad bat, not 2. They have decent but not great bats in Burleson and Sagesse. Pitching is what they need more of now.

Anyone seen Michael Confortos statistics? He was a favorite get on this board for quite some time. It is amazing how many pretty decent ballplayers can fall off a cliff all of a sudden.

[Futuregm2]

lots of good complementary hitters...herrera looks like a solid bat...winn,noot,contreras etc....throw a 35 homer 900 OPS into the mix and this might be a dangerous group

Agree but I think they could also have a very good offense if they sent Gorman and Walker down and replaced them with even decent bats. Having two useless bats is still a handicap

I have not seen too many games where both Walker and Gorman were in the line-up at the same time. So it is one bad bat, not 2. They have decent but not great bats in Burleson and Sagesse. Pitching is what they need more of now.

Anyone seen Michael Confortos statistics? He was a favorite get on this board for quite some time. It is amazing how many pretty decent ballplayers can fall off a cliff all of a sudden.

Or ecleme favorite Joc Pederson. Great last year and beyond terrible this year.

[ecleme22]

lots of good complementary hitters...herrera looks like a solid bat...winn,noot,contreras etc....throw a 35 homer 900 OPS into the mix and this might be a dangerous group

Agree but I think they could also have a very good offense if they sent Gorman and Walker down and replaced them with even decent bats. Having two useless bats is still a handicap

I have not seen too many games where both Walker and Gorman were in the line-up at the same time. So it is one bad bat, not 2. They have decent but not great bats in Burleson and Sagesse. Pitching is what they need more of now.

Anyone seen Michael Confortos statistics? He was a favorite get on this board for quite some time. It is amazing how many pretty decent ballplayers can fall off a cliff all of a sudden.

Or ecleme favorite Joc Pederson. Great last year and beyond terrible this year.

Pederson has had a nice career and crushes RHP.

He’s had a really tough start to 2025. [shirt] happens.

[Youboughtit]

For the Central or last wild card maybe. They are at least 2 superstar MOTO bats and a legit #1 ace from being a WS contender. I guess our definition of contender is different.

[Futuregm2]

For the Central or last wild card maybe. They are at least 2 superstar MOTO bats and a legit #1 ace from being a WS contender. I guess our definition of contender is different.

4th best offense in the NL with currently 4 hitters with a .800+ OPS in the lineup and 3 more that aren’t above .800, but have a 100+ OPS+.

But yes we are 2 superstar MOTO bats from having that kind of an offense.

I’d say we are maybe 1 MOTO bat away from having an elite offense and an ace from having a very good rotation. But I’ll take our top 4 right now against most teams. We’ve won 5 out of 6 series against above .500 teams so far this season, so I’d say things are looking pretty good.

[Cranny]

What’s better under the present circumstances?

1.) Make a trade for a young stud who’s in his pre arbitration or arbitration years for a low budget team. Look at him as a long term possibility.
Give up some talent in the trade.

2.) Sign a free agent older, established guy like a Beltran or Berkman to a short term contract.

[sikeston bulldog2]

What’s better under the present circumstances?

1.) Make a trade for a young stud who’s in his pre arbitration or arbitration years for a low budget team. Look at him as a long term possibility.
Give up some talent in the trade.

2.) Sign a free agent older, established guy like a Beltran or Berkman to a short term contract.

My model says rebuild for two seasons, then be a league level power by 2027. That means play the kids now. Cut what can’t make it in off season.. ADD one stud- pitcher corner of or third baseman. That player can come from either of your suggestions because, the other can come after next season. We can have both by 2027.

[rockondlouie]

What’s better under the present circumstances?

1.) Make a trade for a young stud who’s in his pre arbitration or arbitration years for a low budget team. Look at him as a long term possibility.
Give up some talent in the trade.

2.) Sign a free agent older, established guy like a Beltran or Berkman to a short term contract.

I'd go w/#1 given this team is being built for the future around young veterans Noot & Donny, plus a younger core of Winn, VSII and eventually JJW (Walker and Gorman could be here too but they're just not progressing enough to count on them....yet).

What would it take to get K. Stowers/27 yrs old/Of'er/10 HR: .300 .375 .571 .946 and possibly breaking out from the Marlins?

J. Walker or N. Gorman straight up plus toss in a minor league pitcher?

[Futuregm2]

What’s better under the present circumstances?

1.) Make a trade for a young stud who’s in his pre arbitration or arbitration years for a low budget team. Look at him as a long term possibility.
Give up some talent in the trade.

2.) Sign a free agent older, established guy like a Beltran or Berkman to a short term contract.

I’m not sure either of those exist as possibilities right now. Especially #2.

Actively in baseball there are only 15 players in baseball with 40+ fWAR for their careers, a la a Beltran/Berkman.

Those players are:

Freddie Freeman
Mookie Betts
Jose Altuve
Paul Goldschmidt
Francisco Lindor
Aaron Judge
Manny Machado
Bryce Harper
Andrew McCutchen
Jose Ramirez
Nolan Arenado
Christian Yelich
Trea Turner
Alex Bregman
Xander Bogaerts