Is Masyn Winn on the verge of Superstardom?

[hugeCardfan]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

Needs to consistently hit 25-30 HR to be considered with Witt Henderson Betts Lindor etc. time will tell but 15 HR won’t be considered a start unless he hits .300 with a ton of SB and leauge leading OBP

Unfortunately, this is very true. Mason is an old style short stop at 5 foot 10 with excellent defense and to very good hitting.


However, his type has been eclipsed by a new breed of shortstop that runs from 6-1 to 6-5, and can hit at an MVP level with elite power and still possess great defense and speed. Isotypes it would’ve been relegated as first baseman or outfielders in a prior generation - Pujols, strawberry, etc. But they started at shortstop in Little League and never gave it up and just kept getting better in every facet of the game.

Having a Witt or a Henderson hit like an MVP and still play. The toughest defensive position is the next best thing to having one of those unicorn two way players, a Travis Hunter or Shohei Otani.

Masyn is great as SS but we still need to get that elite cleanup bat to play somewhere else.

Sorry but that's all a bunch of cr@p. Winn may be the best fielding SS in the game, especially considering the arm. That he isn't a clean up hitter is inconsequential. You also need #2 hitters. When he becomes adept at bunting and stealing bases....which he will, he will be in a league of his own. He and Scott will be a dynamic duo and widely recognized as unstoppable. They can't all hit 30 HR's...but, I expect Winn to reach 20+.... Those wrists are powerfully built and that ball flies off his bat.

Saying this, I expect him to be a better fielder than the bigger SS's and last longer.

[CorneliusWolfe]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

Needs to consistently hit 25-30 HR to be considered with Witt Henderson Betts Lindor etc. time will tell but 15 HR won’t be considered a start unless he hits .300 with a ton of SB and leauge leading OBP

If he can hit 18-20 and prevent more runs more than those guys with that rocket arm, he could be considered in that same class. Harder to quantify but I’d say overall game seems to be that of an emerging star as OP suggests.

You realize All those guys play just as good of defense and hit for higher average and 25-30HR. There are 6-8 of them in baseball currently. I guess if you consider borderline top 10 at his position a star then ok. I consider a star top 3, a perineal all star and possible HOFer. Even if his defensive rank was 1 he is currently SS offense rank 25 so that would make him player 12-13. I know he missed some time but he’s just not a star hitter

Not saying he'll become him, but Winn's rookie year was pretty much comparable offensively to Witt Jr.'s at the same age minus the steals. And Witt Jr.'s 2nd year started very slow. We'll see how Winn finishes, but I wouldn't put anything past him right now. He's been on fire for almost the entire season now.

Witt Jr.
2022 (22): .254/.294/.428 31 2B 6 3B 20 HR 30 BB-135 K in 632 PA
2023 (23): .276/.319/.495 28 2B 11 3B 30 HR 40 BB-121 K in 694 PA ***Through 44 team games, Witt JR. was hitting .229/.270/.434 with 7 2B 4 3B 7 HR in 185 PA

Winn
2024 (22): .267/.314/.416 32 2B 5 3B 15 HR 41 BB-109 K in 637 PA
2025 (23): .281/.371/.465 6 2B 0 3B 5 HR 15 BB-32 K in 132 PA

Minor leauge HR

Winn 37 in 325 games
Witt. 24 in 162 games

So double the power. I suspect it’s that way moving forward

Minor League HR

Saggese 74 in 455 games
Judge 57 in 353 games

I suppose we’ve got a future MVP in our minor leagues!!

That Shady dude would strongly agree! Lol. I think there could be some relevance (hopefully) to those Winn/Witt comparison stats. Of course Winn will have to grow some more but considering his age/experience not impossible.

[Whatashame]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

Who was Jumpsteady? Templeton? Ozzie really didn’t hit much until the 80s and I still don’t think he ever hit five home runs in a single season let alone in a month and a half.


But I think Edgar was still a better hitter, although he wasn’t quite as young when he got promoted from the Aaa Marlins to St. Louis.

Yes, Jumpsteady was Garry Templeton’s nickname. Really talented player. Most hated the Templeton trade for a relatively unknown Ozzie Smith but turns out Herzog knew what he was doing. Shocker!!

[hmoss859]

Templeton was a unique talent

1979 Season: 314 avg, 19 triples and 211 hits at age 23

Dude had an attitude

[bccardsfan]

Winn doesn't have to be a superstar. He just needs to keep playing GG defense, hit for a high avg. and have a little pop. As someone pointed out, he needs to pick up the stolen base game. He doesn't need to carry the team, just be part of it. The lineup is quite deep right now. Everyone just needs to keep playing their role and we need one of Walker or Gorman to actually develop a hit tool. Walker has hit a few hard shots lately, so maybe...

Winn just needs to be Winn... a very, very good young SS.

[Futuregm2]

Winn
March: 0 for 14
April: .322/.397/.525
May: .317/.417/.537

Elite defense, 0 errors made so far

Emerging power, I think 20-25 HRs is possible this year for him. He started to unlock the power last season in the 2nd half when he hit 10 HRs in 286 PAs. He’s carried that over to 2025 with 5 HRs in 132 PAs.

And since moving into the 2nd spot, he has 4 doubles and 4 HRs in 58 PAs. He’s hitting .347 (.448 OBP) with a 1.122 OPS in that spot.

[Basil Shabazz]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

Who was Jumpsteady? Templeton? Ozzie really didn’t hit much until the 80s and I still don’t think he ever hit five home runs in a single season let alone in a month and a half.


But I think Edgar was still a better hitter, although he wasn’t quite as young when he got promoted from the Aaa Marlins to St. Louis.

Edgar Renteria was 22 years old in his first full season w/ the Cards! Amazing that the Marlins would trade a 21 year old SS w/ 6 years of team control for a mid 20s middle reliever, a light hitting middle infielder and Looper who was moved to the pen in the minors because he didn't profile as a starter.

[Futuregm2]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

Who was Jumpsteady? Templeton? Ozzie really didn’t hit much until the 80s and I still don’t think he ever hit five home runs in a single season let alone in a month and a half.


But I think Edgar was still a better hitter, although he wasn’t quite as young when he got promoted from the Aaa Marlins to St. Louis.

Edgar Renteria was 22 years old in his first full season w/ the Cards! Amazing that the Marlins would trade a 21 year old SS w/ 6 years of team control for a mid 20s middle reliever, a light hitting middle infielder and Looper who was moved to the pen in the minors because he didn't profile as a starter.

Well at the time Braden Looper was the #23 prospect in baseball by Baseball America and Pablo Ozuna was the #8 prospect in baseball. And Renteria was coming off back to back sub .700 OPS seasons and had a grand total of 12 HRs in 1742 PAs with the Marlins. It would have been like us dealing Mathews/Tink Hence, Wetherholt, and a pitcher like Swanson or Graceffo for a Geraldo Perdomo or Xavier Edwards maybe?

[3dender]

I don't know about superstar, but I'd be really happy with the best Cardinals SS since Ozzie. Hasn't surpassed Renteria yet but seems well within reach.

[Swuhgen]

It's more than one game. Winn is only 23. His defense is fabulous and his arm is elite. His speed is an asset. And more importantly...he seems to have found a home & fit in the 2-hole!

Did I mention he's only 23?

After tonight we're looking at a kid with a line of:

.281/.371/.465/.836
23 runs, 5 HR, 15 RBI

We haven't seen a young SS like this since Jump Steady in the 70's. It appears the sky's the limit with this kid!

Anyone else as excited about his development as I am?

It sure seems like he could be.
And the franchise desperately needs a superstar. Not sure for what that means on the field but for what it means off the field. They need a face of this franchise and he could be that for many years.

[bccardsfan]

Interesting info on Edgar. I always loved that guy. As to my comments above on Winn, he has tremendous value on D. He is becoming the next Ozzie at SS on D. Yeah, I said that out loud. We all watch this kid daily and he is just nails on D. He is to SS what Nado was to 3B in his absolute prime. Winn has matured greatly in the past season. When he first arrived he would uncork that cannon arm on most every throw. Now he only throws just as hard as he has to on any given play. His range is superb and he gets to things in such a way that we take it for granted watching him. I think he is the best defensive SS in the NL that I see regularly, and there are some other very, very good ones. Because I wrote that he will make a key error tomorrow, but whatever.

At the plate, he makes adjustments. You can see it all the time. He started out the year trying to hit a 5 run homer most every AB. Then he dialed it down and now he is hitting, and only taking the home run swing when appropriate. Yes, moving him to the two hole seemed to really help him. He rarely has two bad ABs in a row. Yes, it happens, but he doesn't get a string of them in a row. He adjusts, which is the sign of a mature player. The kid seems to be entering his prime. I think if he just continues the D, and hits 15-20 dingers with high OBP that is all he needs to be to have tremendous value to the team. He doesn't need to try to hit dingers at the expense of line drives to all fields and high OBP. With RISP I will take a lined single to RF every time over trying to hit it out and failing.

I sure wouldn't want to have to choose the NL starting SS for the all star game. There are a few and Winn is in the conversation. It isn't all about hitting. The guy puts a defensive show on every night. He and VSII have been really fun to watch this season... and Herrera...that guy's ABs are not quite like Albert, but you always stop and watch him hit.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I don't know what the ceiling is for Winn but suspect something like 20/75/20 800 OPS with GG defense. Yup that to me is stardom. No idea what defines a superstar.

I am also happy to see that instead of a sophomore slump as so many players have the second time the league sees them he is actually improving. SS is a loaded position so he has a ways to go to crack the top 10 at his position but if this is it for him I'm still more than happy. Perhaps he will display more power as he fills out which would be awesome.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I don't know what the ceiling is for Winn but suspect something like 20/75/20 800 OPS with GG defense. Yup that to me is stardom. No idea what defines a superstar.

I am also happy to see that instead of a sophomore slump as so many players have the second time the league sees them he is actually improving. SS is a loaded position so he has a ways to go to crack the top 10 at his position but if this is it for him I'm still more than happy. Perhaps he will display more power as he fills out which would be awesome.

Can I disagree on your statement- has a long way to go to crack top ten. I think she is already top ten.

[Futuregm2]

Interesting info on Edgar. I always loved that guy. As to my comments above on Winn, he has tremendous value on D. He is becoming the next Ozzie at SS on D. Yeah, I said that out loud. We all watch this kid daily and he is just nails on D. He is to SS what Nado was to 3B in his absolute prime. Winn has matured greatly in the past season. When he first arrived he would uncork that cannon arm on most every throw. Now he only throws just as hard as he has to on any given play. His range is superb and he gets to things in such a way that we take it for granted watching him. I think he is the best defensive SS in the NL that I see regularly, and there are some other very, very good ones. Because I wrote that he will make a key error tomorrow, but whatever.

At the plate, he makes adjustments. You can see it all the time. He started out the year trying to hit a 5 run homer most every AB. Then he dialed it down and now he is hitting, and only taking the home run swing when appropriate. Yes, moving him to the two hole seemed to really help him. He rarely has two bad ABs in a row. Yes, it happens, but he doesn't get a string of them in a row. He adjusts, which is the sign of a mature player. The kid seems to be entering his prime. I think if he just continues the D, and hits 15-20 dingers with high OBP that is all he needs to be to have tremendous value to the team. He doesn't need to try to hit dingers at the expense of line drives to all fields and high OBP. With RISP I will take a lined single to RF every time over trying to hit it out and failing.

I sure wouldn't want to have to choose the NL starting SS for the all star game. There are a few and Winn is in the conversation. It isn't all about hitting. The guy puts a defensive show on every night. He and VSII have been really fun to watch this season... and Herrera...that guy's ABs are not quite like Albert, but you always stop and watch him hit.

We’re going to have some very good SS’s who rarely have an AS appearance because the position is so deep.

Perdomo: 2.1 fWAR .287/.391/.447
Lindor: 1.9 fWAR .297/.364/.491
Winn: 1.4 fWAR .281/.371/.465
Betts: 1.4 fWAR .266/.343/.429
Abrams: 1.3 fWAR .311/.375/.525
Swanson: 1.3 fWAR .246/.306/.461
Turner: 1.1 fWAR .299/.357/.377
De La Cruz: 0.6 fWAR .250/.323/.407

And you’ve got players like Adames and Bogaerts as well.

Then consider in the AL where you’ve got Witts, Henderson, Seager, plus a guy like Jacob Wilson emerging. Volpe and Peña as well.

[thetank2]

Here is hoping he scores 100 runs a season consistently.

[bccardsfan]

Interesting info on Edgar. I always loved that guy. As to my comments above on Winn, he has tremendous value on D. He is becoming the next Ozzie at SS on D. Yeah, I said that out loud. We all watch this kid daily and he is just nails on D. He is to SS what Nado was to 3B in his absolute prime. Winn has matured greatly in the past season. When he first arrived he would uncork that cannon arm on most every throw. Now he only throws just as hard as he has to on any given play. His range is superb and he gets to things in such a way that we take it for granted watching him. I think he is the best defensive SS in the NL that I see regularly, and there are some other very, very good ones. Because I wrote that he will make a key error tomorrow, but whatever.

At the plate, he makes adjustments. You can see it all the time. He started out the year trying to hit a 5 run homer most every AB. Then he dialed it down and now he is hitting, and only taking the home run swing when appropriate. Yes, moving him to the two hole seemed to really help him. He rarely has two bad ABs in a row. Yes, it happens, but he doesn't get a string of them in a row. He adjusts, which is the sign of a mature player. The kid seems to be entering his prime. I think if he just continues the D, and hits 15-20 dingers with high OBP that is all he needs to be to have tremendous value to the team. He doesn't need to try to hit dingers at the expense of line drives to all fields and high OBP. With RISP I will take a lined single to RF every time over trying to hit it out and failing.

I sure wouldn't want to have to choose the NL starting SS for the all star game. There are a few and Winn is in the conversation. It isn't all about hitting. The guy puts a defensive show on every night. He and VSII have been really fun to watch this season... and Herrera...that guy's ABs are not quite like Albert, but you always stop and watch him hit.

We’re going to have some very good SS’s who rarely have an AS appearance because the position is so deep.

Perdomo: 2.1 fWAR .287/.391/.447
Lindor: 1.9 fWAR .297/.364/.491
Winn: 1.4 fWAR .281/.371/.465
Betts: 1.4 fWAR .266/.343/.429
Abrams: 1.3 fWAR .311/.375/.525
Swanson: 1.3 fWAR .246/.306/.461
Turner: 1.1 fWAR .299/.357/.377
De La Cruz: 0.6 fWAR .250/.323/.407

And you’ve got players like Adames and Bogaerts as well.

Then consider in the AL where you’ve got Witts, Henderson, Seager, plus a guy like Jacob Wilson emerging. Volpe and Peña as well.

Agreed. Amazing how deep that position has become over the past decade really. The days of the great defensive SS who is a poor hitter are over. Now they do it all. Fans choose the guy with the offensive numbers for the ASG mostly. Winn has good numbers, but not top of the list. But his D is certainly top few in baseball at SS. For an old school fan like me... I know the value of that nightly. He can change the flow of a game with his glove.