'Vic' speed getting national attention

[bccardsfan]

Great to see another Cardinals player w/speed who causes havoc on the basepaths in the spirit of L. Brock and V. Coleman!

He looks to have better hitting skills than Coleman, and not going to be Lou at the plate. We shall see. But 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 or whatever it is in the SB category, and scoring from first twice yesterday... and running down balls in the gap, and the leaping home run robbing catch.... fun to watch. I am enjoying the team because I love watching some kids develop and I don't expect them to do anything in the post season. MO will be gone too and then Bloom gets to build the team he wants. There are some good pieces here to build around.

Agreed bcc better than Coleman, not Brock level.

Having VSII along w/M. Winn it looks like C. Bloom has two "up the middle" pieces in place to build around w/J.J. coming soon to man 2B!

If only I. Hererra was a stud behind the plate, then we'd have one helluva up the middle for the next 10 years!

Yeah Rock, I am with you on all. IH can pick up a 1B mitt.... or DH and be the emergency catcher. He has a poor arm, so people are going to run on him no matter where he plays. 1B would be OK I guess. They need to find one more SP, a couple of BP pieces, and hope the JJ can really hit in the bigs and play 3B. Saggese can hit, but his arm is not really suited for the left side, so he looks like a second baseman from my small sample size view. My preference is for a lineup of guys like Donnie, who put the ball in play. One or two boppers is all you need. Jack Clark and the seven dwarves as it were (I guess 8 with the stupid DH rule). Not sure who the young bopper will be yet. Unfortunately not looking like Gorman or Walker right now, but they have time. Not sure IH is a real power hitter. We will know by the end of the season. He has shown the flashes. They are going to need one more everyday player who hits for power to go with the guys like Donovan, Winn, VSII and maybe Saggese and who ever else. WC will not be here that much longer. JJ is the wild card. He could blossom or he could turn into Gorman or Walker. But there are pieces here to build a pretty good and fairly young team around.

[DewittDaman11]

Victor certainly stopped the Billy Hamilton comparisons, which I always felt were way off base, considering the two players different builds. Victor really appears to be quite the cerebral player, as well, especially when considering his patient approach at the plate this year. I'm very happy for him, and the Cardinals. Brings such an exciting aspect of speed and athleticism that we haven't had in many a year. Winn's no slouch, either!

[JDW]

So a couple games ago Vic stole 2B I thought for his 12th straight, then did he get sent back to 1B or what happened?
Apparently later in the same inning he was out trying to steal 2nd for his 1st CS? First thought he was out trying to steal 3B, but they said 2B so just wondered what happened, tia.
Sometimes I only catch parts of the game while half listening, half doing other things.

[Futuregm2]

So a couple games ago Vic stole 2B I thought for his 12th straight, then did he get sent back to 1B or what happened?
Apparently later in the same inning he was out trying to steal 2nd for his 1st CS? First thought he was out trying to steal 3B, but they said 2B so just wondered what happened, tia.
Sometimes I only catch parts of the game while half listening, half doing other things.

There was batters interference on the play, so Scott had to go back to 1B.

[JDW]

So a couple games ago Vic stole 2B I thought for his 12th straight, then did he get sent back to 1B or what happened?
Apparently later in the same inning he was out trying to steal 2nd for his 1st CS? First thought he was out trying to steal 3B, but they said 2B so just wondered what happened, tia.
Sometimes I only catch parts of the game while half listening, half doing other things.

There was batters interference on the play, so Scott had to go back to 1B.

Ahhh, thanks FGM.
Guess the OP I was thinking about asking for guesses on how many SB's does VS2 get before a CS goes away.
Kind of a bad way for it to happen.
Hoping he can be a 85% successful or more type of guy with the SB, but that's pretty rare. Tim Raines level?

[sikeston bulldog2]

So a couple games ago Vic stole 2B I thought for his 12th straight, then did he get sent back to 1B or what happened?
Apparently later in the same inning he was out trying to steal 2nd for his 1st CS? First thought he was out trying to steal 3B, but they said 2B so just wondered what happened, tia.
Sometimes I only catch parts of the game while half listening, half doing other things.

There was batters interference on the play, so Scott had to go back to 1B.

Ahhh, thanks FGM.
Guess the OP I was thinking about asking for guesses on how many SB's does VS2 get before a CS goes away.
Kind of a bad way for it to happen.
Hoping he can be a 85% successful or more type of guy with the SB, but that's pretty rare. Tim Raines level?

Well if he gets on base once per game.250 or less, then potentially you have 162 stolen bases.

Wait and see one year he might have a major year. On pace for 50 now.

[thetank2]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

[sikeston bulldog2]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

Wasn’t Brock not a good fielder to begin with.

[rockondlouie]

Great to see another Cardinals player w/speed who causes havoc on the basepaths in the spirit of L. Brock and V. Coleman!

He looks to have better hitting skills than Coleman, and not going to be Lou at the plate. We shall see. But 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 or whatever it is in the SB category, and scoring from first twice yesterday... and running down balls in the gap, and the leaping home run robbing catch.... fun to watch. I am enjoying the team because I love watching some kids develop and I don't expect them to do anything in the post season. MO will be gone too and then Bloom gets to build the team he wants. There are some good pieces here to build around.

Agreed bcc better than Coleman, not Brock level.

Having VSII along w/M. Winn it looks like C. Bloom has two "up the middle" pieces in place to build around w/J.J. coming soon to man 2B!

If only I. Hererra was a stud behind the plate, then we'd have one helluva up the middle for the next 10 years!

Yeah Rock, I am with you on all. IH can pick up a 1B mitt.... or DH and be the emergency catcher. He has a poor arm, so people are going to run on him no matter where he plays. 1B would be OK I guess. They need to find one more SP, a couple of BP pieces, and hope the JJ can really hit in the bigs and play 3B. Saggese can hit, but his arm is not really suited for the left side, so he looks like a second baseman from my small sample size view. My preference is for a lineup of guys like Donnie, who put the ball in play. One or two boppers is all you need. Jack Clark and the seven dwarves as it were (I guess 8 with the stupid DH rule). Not sure who the young bopper will be yet. Unfortunately not looking like Gorman or Walker right now, but they have time. Not sure IH is a real power hitter. We will know by the end of the season. He has shown the flashes. They are going to need one more everyday player who hits for power to go with the guys like Donovan, Winn, VSII and maybe Saggese and who ever else. WC will not be here that much longer. JJ is the wild card. He could blossom or he could turn into Gorman or Walker. But there are pieces here to build a pretty good and fairly young team around.

Herrera is a perfect DH candidate, could even learn 1B or the OF.

What is really missing is that MOTO thunder, a big bat that can hit 30+ HR's and drive in 100 runs.

That hitter isn't on the current team or in our system, he'll have to come via trade or FA.

My hope is J.J., the first #1 to be fully developed under the C. Bloom player development system, won't fall to the wayside like so many have under Mo's leadership.

Once S. Gray's deal is off the books ($35M in 2026), Bloom should have the dry powder to ink a true FOTR starter to go w/Libby giving the Cardinals a solid 1-2 punch. McGreevy, Mathews, ect....hurlers can then fill out the rotation.

The future looks solid to me, but ONLY if BDWJr commits the payroll ($175+M) Bloom will need to build a contender.

If Bill goes cheap, then lean times will be here to stay.

[Futuregm2]

Great to see another Cardinals player w/speed who causes havoc on the basepaths in the spirit of L. Brock and V. Coleman!

He looks to have better hitting skills than Coleman, and not going to be Lou at the plate. We shall see. But 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 or whatever it is in the SB category, and scoring from first twice yesterday... and running down balls in the gap, and the leaping home run robbing catch.... fun to watch. I am enjoying the team because I love watching some kids develop and I don't expect them to do anything in the post season. MO will be gone too and then Bloom gets to build the team he wants. There are some good pieces here to build around.

Agreed bcc better than Coleman, not Brock level.

Having VSII along w/M. Winn it looks like C. Bloom has two "up the middle" pieces in place to build around w/J.J. coming soon to man 2B!

If only I. Hererra was a stud behind the plate, then we'd have one helluva up the middle for the next 10 years!

Yeah Rock, I am with you on all. IH can pick up a 1B mitt.... or DH and be the emergency catcher. He has a poor arm, so people are going to run on him no matter where he plays. 1B would be OK I guess. They need to find one more SP, a couple of BP pieces, and hope the JJ can really hit in the bigs and play 3B. Saggese can hit, but his arm is not really suited for the left side, so he looks like a second baseman from my small sample size view. My preference is for a lineup of guys like Donnie, who put the ball in play. One or two boppers is all you need. Jack Clark and the seven dwarves as it were (I guess 8 with the stupid DH rule). Not sure who the young bopper will be yet. Unfortunately not looking like Gorman or Walker right now, but they have time. Not sure IH is a real power hitter. We will know by the end of the season. He has shown the flashes. They are going to need one more everyday player who hits for power to go with the guys like Donovan, Winn, VSII and maybe Saggese and who ever else. WC will not be here that much longer. JJ is the wild card. He could blossom or he could turn into Gorman or Walker. But there are pieces here to build a pretty good and fairly young team around.

Herrera is a perfect DH candidate, could even learn 1B or the OF.

What is really missing is that MOTO thunder, a big bat that can hit 30+ HR's and drive in 100 runs.

That hitter isn't on the current team or in our system, he'll have to come via trade or FA.

My hope is J.J., the first #1 to be fully developed under the C. Bloom player development system, won't fall to the wayside like so many have under Mo's leadership.

Once S. Gray's deal is off the books ($35M in 2026), Bloom should have the dry powder to ink a true FOTR starter to go w/Libby giving the Cardinals a solid 1-2 punch. McGreevy, Mathews, ect....hurlers can then fill out the rotation.

The future looks solid to me, but ONLY if BDWJr commits the payroll ($175+M) Bloom will need to build a contender.

If Bill goes cheap, then lean times will be here to stay.

Yep, I was looking at it last night and this team has like 4 guys that should be #1/2 hitters in the lineup. One of them is hitting 3rd on this team.

I like either Scott or Nootbaar leading off. Scott getting his OBP up to .359 this year makes him really interesting for that spot.

I don’t mind Winn hitting 2nd at all, he reminds me offensively of Renteria, maybe even with a bit more power than Edgar had. And this year, Winn’s OBP is .343. He’s got an OPS over 1.000 in the 2nd spot this year.

With Herrera back, I would go

1. Noot
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Walker/Burleson/Gorman
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Scott

But what if you moved Scott into the leadoff spot?
1. Scott
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Nootbaar
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Walker/Burleson/Gorman

I think at this point I would not rock the boat too much with Scott/Nootbaar leading off. But it sure makes it interesting in the future. Man, if we could get just one true middle of the order hitter, probably a corner outfielder, this lineup becomes complete.

[rockondlouie]

Great to see another Cardinals player w/speed who causes havoc on the basepaths in the spirit of L. Brock and V. Coleman!

He looks to have better hitting skills than Coleman, and not going to be Lou at the plate. We shall see. But 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 or whatever it is in the SB category, and scoring from first twice yesterday... and running down balls in the gap, and the leaping home run robbing catch.... fun to watch. I am enjoying the team because I love watching some kids develop and I don't expect them to do anything in the post season. MO will be gone too and then Bloom gets to build the team he wants. There are some good pieces here to build around.

Agreed bcc better than Coleman, not Brock level.

Having VSII along w/M. Winn it looks like C. Bloom has two "up the middle" pieces in place to build around w/J.J. coming soon to man 2B!

If only I. Hererra was a stud behind the plate, then we'd have one helluva up the middle for the next 10 years!

Yeah Rock, I am with you on all. IH can pick up a 1B mitt.... or DH and be the emergency catcher. He has a poor arm, so people are going to run on him no matter where he plays. 1B would be OK I guess. They need to find one more SP, a couple of BP pieces, and hope the JJ can really hit in the bigs and play 3B. Saggese can hit, but his arm is not really suited for the left side, so he looks like a second baseman from my small sample size view. My preference is for a lineup of guys like Donnie, who put the ball in play. One or two boppers is all you need. Jack Clark and the seven dwarves as it were (I guess 8 with the stupid DH rule). Not sure who the young bopper will be yet. Unfortunately not looking like Gorman or Walker right now, but they have time. Not sure IH is a real power hitter. We will know by the end of the season. He has shown the flashes. They are going to need one more everyday player who hits for power to go with the guys like Donovan, Winn, VSII and maybe Saggese and who ever else. WC will not be here that much longer. JJ is the wild card. He could blossom or he could turn into Gorman or Walker. But there are pieces here to build a pretty good and fairly young team around.

Herrera is a perfect DH candidate, could even learn 1B or the OF.

What is really missing is that MOTO thunder, a big bat that can hit 30+ HR's and drive in 100 runs.

That hitter isn't on the current team or in our system, he'll have to come via trade or FA.

My hope is J.J., the first #1 to be fully developed under the C. Bloom player development system, won't fall to the wayside like so many have under Mo's leadership.

Once S. Gray's deal is off the books ($35M in 2026), Bloom should have the dry powder to ink a true FOTR starter to go w/Libby giving the Cardinals a solid 1-2 punch. McGreevy, Mathews, ect....hurlers can then fill out the rotation.

The future looks solid to me, but ONLY if BDWJr commits the payroll ($175+M) Bloom will need to build a contender.

If Bill goes cheap, then lean times will be here to stay.

Yep, I was looking at it last night and this team has like 4 guys that should be #1/2 hitters in the lineup. One of them is hitting 3rd on this team.

I like either Scott or Nootbaar leading off. Scott getting his OBP up to .359 this year makes him really interesting for that spot.

I don’t mind Winn hitting 2nd at all, he reminds me offensively of Renteria, maybe even with a bit more power than Edgar had. And this year, Winn’s OBP is .343. He’s got an OPS over 1.000 in the 2nd spot this year.

With Herrera back, I would go

1. Noot
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Walker/Burleson/Gorman
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Scott

But what if you moved Scott into the leadoff spot?
1. Scott
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Nootbaar
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Walker/Burleson/Gorman

I think at this point I would not rock the boat too much with Scott/Nootbaar leading off. But it sure makes it interesting in the future. Man, if we could get just one true middle of the order hitter, probably a corner outfielder, this lineup becomes complete.

While I agree VSII will one day be the lead-off hitter, I agree w/you and would leave him alone this year and AVOID the (possible) mistake Oli made last season w/Winn putting him at lead-off when he was killing it in the #8 hole.

Noot's OB% is still elite.

I'm fine w/him leading off w/ VSII in the "second lead-off spot" hitting #9.

And if Winn does start to struggle, then I have no issue sliding Hererra into the #2 slot.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Great to see another Cardinals player w/speed who causes havoc on the basepaths in the spirit of L. Brock and V. Coleman!

He looks to have better hitting skills than Coleman, and not going to be Lou at the plate. We shall see. But 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 or whatever it is in the SB category, and scoring from first twice yesterday... and running down balls in the gap, and the leaping home run robbing catch.... fun to watch. I am enjoying the team because I love watching some kids develop and I don't expect them to do anything in the post season. MO will be gone too and then Bloom gets to build the team he wants. There are some good pieces here to build around.

Agreed bcc better than Coleman, not Brock level.

Having VSII along w/M. Winn it looks like C. Bloom has two "up the middle" pieces in place to build around w/J.J. coming soon to man 2B!

If only I. Hererra was a stud behind the plate, then we'd have one helluva up the middle for the next 10 years!

Yeah Rock, I am with you on all. IH can pick up a 1B mitt.... or DH and be the emergency catcher. He has a poor arm, so people are going to run on him no matter where he plays. 1B would be OK I guess. They need to find one more SP, a couple of BP pieces, and hope the JJ can really hit in the bigs and play 3B. Saggese can hit, but his arm is not really suited for the left side, so he looks like a second baseman from my small sample size view. My preference is for a lineup of guys like Donnie, who put the ball in play. One or two boppers is all you need. Jack Clark and the seven dwarves as it were (I guess 8 with the stupid DH rule). Not sure who the young bopper will be yet. Unfortunately not looking like Gorman or Walker right now, but they have time. Not sure IH is a real power hitter. We will know by the end of the season. He has shown the flashes. They are going to need one more everyday player who hits for power to go with the guys like Donovan, Winn, VSII and maybe Saggese and who ever else. WC will not be here that much longer. JJ is the wild card. He could blossom or he could turn into Gorman or Walker. But there are pieces here to build a pretty good and fairly young team around.

Herrera is a perfect DH candidate, could even learn 1B or the OF.

What is really missing is that MOTO thunder, a big bat that can hit 30+ HR's and drive in 100 runs.

That hitter isn't on the current team or in our system, he'll have to come via trade or FA.

My hope is J.J., the first #1 to be fully developed under the C. Bloom player development system, won't fall to the wayside like so many have under Mo's leadership.

Once S. Gray's deal is off the books ($35M in 2026), Bloom should have the dry powder to ink a true FOTR starter to go w/Libby giving the Cardinals a solid 1-2 punch. McGreevy, Mathews, ect....hurlers can then fill out the rotation.

The future looks solid to me, but ONLY if BDWJr commits the payroll ($175+M) Bloom will need to build a contender.

If Bill goes cheap, then lean times will be here to stay.

Yep, I was looking at it last night and this team has like 4 guys that should be #1/2 hitters in the lineup. One of them is hitting 3rd on this team.

I like either Scott or Nootbaar leading off. Scott getting his OBP up to .359 this year makes him really interesting for that spot.

I don’t mind Winn hitting 2nd at all, he reminds me offensively of Renteria, maybe even with a bit more power than Edgar had. And this year, Winn’s OBP is .343. He’s got an OPS over 1.000 in the 2nd spot this year.

With Herrera back, I would go

1. Noot
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Walker/Burleson/Gorman
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Scott

But what if you moved Scott into the leadoff spot?
1. Scott
2. Winn
3. Donovan
4. Contreras
5. Herrera
6. Arenado
7. Nootbaar
8. Pages/Pozo
9. Walker/Burleson/Gorman

I think at this point I would not rock the boat too much with Scott/Nootbaar leading off. But it sure makes it interesting in the future. Man, if we could get just one true middle of the order hitter, probably a corner outfielder, this lineup becomes complete.

Fear not. That stud is coming. Off season. Reset. This year is the year of play. Off-season for cuts and add a stud. Could be a pitcher. Could be a third baseman. Could be a corner outfielder.

[ramfandan]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

Wasn’t Brock not a good fielder to begin with.

I can share 'early eyeball ' evaluations of Brock's fielding. When Cards acquired him in 1964 (mid season from Cubs ) , I was in HS .. 16 a sophomore .
Remember him playing LF and boy was it an adventure out there. (Think of Walker last year ) .
Brock was quite poor in judging balls hit to him. On line drives he would take a false step in, stop and retreat with some balls going over his head. Fans would shake their head for it wasn't pretty to watch. When he arrived from Cubs , he was hitting .251 had stolen 10 bases and thrown out 3 times
Then with Cardinals 2nd half of year he batted .348 stole 33 more bags -thrown out 15 times So for the season , he stole 43 bases .. and caught stealing 18 times.
For his 19 yr. career , Brock stole 938 bases and was caught stealng 307 times So for 162 game avg. He swiped 58 per year and was caught stealing 19 times per year.

[sp25]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

Were Lou's problems more throwing rather than fielding the ball, or what?

[ClassicO]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

Wasn’t Brock not a good fielder to begin with.

Fangraphs has his career offense at 187.2 and defense at -169.3! And I watched him a lot, and he was simply a very poor OF.
Bill James gave Brock a fielding grade of C- and said: “Brock was…well, not as bad in left as Lonnie Smith, but never very good.”
He averaged over 10 errors per year from 1964-1974. He had an astounding 19 errors in 1966 when Curt Flood had 0 errors.
And after that he didn't have as many games but still 6-9 errors. His speed wasn't enough to make up for bad routes.
He originally had a decent arm but no sights, as he overthrew often. He either had an injury or that arm just got much worse over the years (much worse in the early 70s).

[sikeston bulldog2]

He's a better fielder than Brock.

Wasn’t Brock not a good fielder to begin with.

Fangraphs has his career offense at 187.2 and defense at -169.3! And I watched him a lot, and he was simply a very poor OF.
Bill James gave Brock a fielding grade of C- and said: “Brock was…well, not as bad in left as Lonnie Smith, but never very good.”
He averaged over 10 errors per year from 1964-1974. He had an astounding 19 errors in 1966 when Curt Flood had 0 errors.
And after that he didn't have as many games but still 6-9 errors. His speed wasn't enough to make up for bad routes.
He originally had a decent arm but no sights, as he overthrew often. He either had an injury or that arm just got much worse over the years (much worse in the early 70s).

Ok that’s my memory .