Post Presser Thoughts

[callitwhatyouwant]

BluesTalk is lousy at providing analysis. I get timed out 9 out of 10 times, and then my content is lost. BluesTalk is the Kyrou of Talk forums. It can only do so much.

Summary:

Just consider what the team would look like right now if we only had our drafted players. Throw out Broberg, Holloway, and Fowler.

Colorado would have Landeskog, MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar.

No. Our scouting department is lousy, and any list that says otherwise is a worthless read.

Talk about an apples and oranges comparison, or cherry picking your data…..or any other fruit-related thing you can come up with!

So tell me, when did the Blues scouts have the luxury of the 2nd overall pick (Landeskog), 1st overall pick (MacKinnon), 10th overall pick (Rantanen), and 4th overall pick (Makar…who should have gone even higher if Philadelphia didn’t screw the pooch)

The 10th overall pick we used on Dvorsky is the highest pick we have had in years. Otherwise, the Blues have consistently picked in the 20’s. Given where the Blues have picked, they have done really well, and the 2023 draft looks like it could really be a home run.

Bingo, We have a winner here, folks. A man that GETS IT!!!!!! Finally, sanity enters the rooms like a spring breeze on the porch.

The idiots will only say that the Blues draft great, and look no further. There lips are too firmly attached to Army that they can't see DRAFT RESULTS.

Imagine that folks.... Colorado drafts better than us when they have picks 2, 1, 10, 4, and the Blues have a single 10.

So now that we've established the draft works when you have high picks, let take this one step further.

Next Question for those that can grasp reality and have a brain:
Does anyone remember Colorado TANKING? Does anyone remember Colorado not being a great team? Does anyone remember Colorado being a LOT WORSE than the Blues in regular season results?

Earlier in the thread Sophisticated Shoes illustrated that Buffalo had far more picks in the top 10 than Colorado and hasn't made the playoffs in 13 years. They have had multiple #1s #2s and #4s and haven't gotten players the equivalent of Colorado's. Getting those players is as much of a crapshoot as anything, that's why they are referred to as "generational". Rasmus Dahlin is your typical #1 overall, good quality player with a huge upside, but if he never reaches it then he is likely still an all star a few seasons. Nate MacKinnon is not your typical #1 overall.

Now to answer your other questions: Yes, yes, yes

It's hell to fall into 1 of my traps.

The winning percentage of the Avs for the last 10 years is .549
The winning percentage of the Blues for the last 10 years is .544

So the part you aren't getting is their star players were drafted 8 years ago and over 10 years ago. The terrible years weren't recent, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

And since then, with all those guys on their roster, they've managed a couple more wins than Army's Blues and the same number of Cups.

Oh so you need a little bit more data, eh? Let's go back 18 years since Landeskog was drafted 14 years ago, and he has been with them the longest.

The Colorado Avalanche have averaged a win percentage of .517 between May 7, 2007 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .547 between May 7, 2007 and May 7, 2025.

So Colorado has "tanked" 3% worse than St Louis across 18 years. That means that St Louis has won 30 more regular season games across 18 years.
So for the great amount of "tanking", they now have 4 superstars and we have Thomas and Kyrou, and the rest of the TOP 6 that can't score on Hellebuyck in the playoffs.

Face it. Colorado fans don't "feel" like their team tanked any more than St Louis fans do. The only difference is that St Louis fights hard to win every meaningless regular season game at the end of the season--just like they did this year.

So for all these high draft picks, Avs haven't accomplished much more than the Blues have drafting in the 20's most of the time.

also, this is post presser thoughts. how they are today. Blues 3-1 vs avs this year. both eliminated same round

[a smell of green grass]

Like I said, very convenient!

Definitely proves you actually do have integrity!!

25 years... I think that we have passed the time at which a human can remember a tank, but here it is...

The Colorado Avalanche have a win percentage of .535 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .528 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

Hmmm. I went farther back, and now Colorado is back on top. Just a very little research reveals that there are essentially no tanks in other people's yards. It's exactly why Armstrong can proudly say that we will win 5% more next year, and he really think that we should be impressed. He realizes that the REGULAR SEASON parity of the league is very tight.

I did research about a month ago. No team does better than the Blues in the regular season during the last 1.5 months. They win the meaningless games like there is no tomorrow. And because of that, you will find a Kyrou on the roster and not a McKinnon.

[TheJackBurton]

Like I said, very convenient!

Definitely proves you actually do have integrity!!

25 years... I think that we have passed the time at which a human can remember a tank, but here it is...

The Colorado Avalanche have a win percentage of .535 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .528 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

Hmmm. I went farther back, and now Colorado is back on top. Just a very little research reveals that there are essentially no tanks in other people's yards. It's exactly why Armstrong can proudly say that we will win 5% more next year, and he really think that we should be impressed. He realizes that the REGULAR SEASON parity of the league is very tight.

I did research about a month ago. No team does better than the Blues in the regular season during the last 1.5 months. They win the meaningless games like there is no tomorrow. And because of that, you will find a Kyrou on the roster and not a McKinnon.

2000 takes you back to the Sakic Forsberg Roy years, they were still an absolute juggernaut at the time.

Let's get to when they started their crash, 2008.

2008-2009 32-45-5 No playoffs
2009-2010 43-30-9 2nd round exit
2010-2011 30-44-8 no playoffs
2011-2012- 41-35-6 no playoffs
2012-2013- 16-25-7 no playoffs (lockout year)(drafted Mackinnon)
2013-2014- 52-22-8 1st round exit
2014-2015- 39-31-12 No playoffs(drafted Rantanen)
2015-2016- 39-39-4 No playoffs
2016-2017- 22-56-4 No playoffs (drafted Makar)
2017-2018- 43-30-9 1st round exit
2018-2019- 38-30-14 2nd round exit
2019-2020- 42-20-8 2nd round exit
2020-2021- 39-13-4 2nd round exit
2021-2022- 56-19-7 Stanley Cup win
2022-2023- 50-25-7 2nd round exit
2023-2024- 49-29-4 1st round exit

all of that has resulted in the following:

609-473-116= .563 win%
7 years of no playoffs
3 1st round exits
5 2nd round exits
1 Cup

That really shows us

They were bad at just the right years to build the team

[bud white]

Like I said, very convenient!

Definitely proves you actually do have integrity!!

25 years... I think that we have passed the time at which a human can remember a tank, but here it is...

The Colorado Avalanche have a win percentage of .535 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .528 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

Hmmm. I went farther back, and now Colorado is back on top. Just a very little research reveals that there are essentially no tanks in other people's yards. It's exactly why Armstrong can proudly say that we will win 5% more next year, and he really think that we should be impressed. He realizes that the REGULAR SEASON parity of the league is very tight.

I did research about a month ago. No team does better than the Blues in the regular season during the last 1.5 months. They win the meaningless games like there is no tomorrow. And because of that, you will find a Kyrou on the roster and not a McKinnon.

2000 takes you back to the Sakic Forsberg Roy years, they were still an absolute juggernaut at the time.

Let's get to when they started their crash, 2008.

2008-2009 32-45-5 No playoffs
2009-2010 43-30-9 2nd round exit
2010-2011 30-44-8 no playoffs
2011-2012- 41-35-6 no playoffs
2012-2013- 16-25-7 no playoffs (lockout year)(drafted Mackinnon)
2013-2014- 52-22-8 1st round exit
2014-2015- 39-31-12 No playoffs(drafted Rantanen)
2015-2016- 39-39-4 No playoffs
2016-2017- 22-56-4 No playoffs (drafted Makar)
2017-2018- 43-30-9 1st round exit
2018-2019- 38-30-14 2nd round exit
2019-2020- 42-20-8 2nd round exit
2020-2021- 39-13-4 2nd round exit
2021-2022- 56-19-7 Stanley Cup win
2022-2023- 50-25-7 2nd round exit
2023-2024- 49-29-4 1st round exit

all of that has resulted in the following:

609-473-116= .563 win%
7 years of no playoffs
3 1st round exits
5 2nd round exits
1 Cup

That really shows us

They were bad at just the right years to build the team

And they can afford to be bad. Kroenke's group also owns the Nuggets and Ball Arena. He can afford for one team to be bad, the other to be good. One team's attendence can take a hit as long as the other is drawing. The Blues' ownership group cannot afford that luxury. While they do own the Enterprise Center - it is not as "maxxed out" in games and events to the extent that Ball Arena is with two pro teams. It's all about events that fill up the calendar.

[TheJackBurton]

Like I said, very convenient!

Definitely proves you actually do have integrity!!

25 years... I think that we have passed the time at which a human can remember a tank, but here it is...

The Colorado Avalanche have a win percentage of .535 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .528 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

Hmmm. I went farther back, and now Colorado is back on top. Just a very little research reveals that there are essentially no tanks in other people's yards. It's exactly why Armstrong can proudly say that we will win 5% more next year, and he really think that we should be impressed. He realizes that the REGULAR SEASON parity of the league is very tight.

I did research about a month ago. No team does better than the Blues in the regular season during the last 1.5 months. They win the meaningless games like there is no tomorrow. And because of that, you will find a Kyrou on the roster and not a McKinnon.

2000 takes you back to the Sakic Forsberg Roy years, they were still an absolute juggernaut at the time.

Let's get to when they started their crash, 2008.

2008-2009 32-45-5 No playoffs
2009-2010 43-30-9 2nd round exit
2010-2011 30-44-8 no playoffs
2011-2012- 41-35-6 no playoffs
2012-2013- 16-25-7 no playoffs (lockout year)(drafted Mackinnon)
2013-2014- 52-22-8 1st round exit
2014-2015- 39-31-12 No playoffs(drafted Rantanen)
2015-2016- 39-39-4 No playoffs
2016-2017- 22-56-4 No playoffs (drafted Makar)
2017-2018- 43-30-9 1st round exit
2018-2019- 38-30-14 2nd round exit
2019-2020- 42-20-8 2nd round exit
2020-2021- 39-13-4 2nd round exit
2021-2022- 56-19-7 Stanley Cup win
2022-2023- 50-25-7 2nd round exit
2023-2024- 49-29-4 1st round exit

all of that has resulted in the following:

609-473-116= .563 win%
7 years of no playoffs
3 1st round exits
5 2nd round exits
1 Cup

That really shows us

They were bad at just the right years to build the team

And they can afford to be bad. Kroenke's group also owns the Nuggets and Ball Arena. He can afford for one team to be bad, the other to be good. One team's attendence can take a hit as long as the other is drawing. The Blues' ownership group cannot afford that luxury. While they do own the Enterprise Center - it is not as "maxxed out" in games and events to the extent that Ball Arena is with two pro teams. It's all about events that fill up the calendar.

It's a shame concussions completely derailed his career because who knows what kind of numbers he puts up, but man drafting Nolan Patrick over Cale Makar is a massive blunder.

[a smell of green grass]

Like I said, very convenient!

Definitely proves you actually do have integrity!!

25 years... I think that we have passed the time at which a human can remember a tank, but here it is...

The Colorado Avalanche have a win percentage of .535 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

The St. Louis Blues have averaged a win percentage of .528 between May 7, 2000 and May 7, 2025.

Hmmm. I went farther back, and now Colorado is back on top. Just a very little research reveals that there are essentially no tanks in other people's yards. It's exactly why Armstrong can proudly say that we will win 5% more next year, and he really think that we should be impressed. He realizes that the REGULAR SEASON parity of the league is very tight.

I did research about a month ago. No team does better than the Blues in the regular season during the last 1.5 months. They win the meaningless games like there is no tomorrow. And because of that, you will find a Kyrou on the roster and not a McKinnon.

2000 takes you back to the Sakic Forsberg Roy years, they were still an absolute juggernaut at the time.

Let's get to when they started their crash, 2008.

2008-2009 32-45-5 No playoffs
2009-2010 43-30-9 2nd round exit
2010-2011 30-44-8 no playoffs
2011-2012- 41-35-6 no playoffs
2012-2013- 16-25-7 no playoffs (lockout year)(drafted Mackinnon)
2013-2014- 52-22-8 1st round exit
2014-2015- 39-31-12 No playoffs(drafted Rantanen)
2015-2016- 39-39-4 No playoffs
2016-2017- 22-56-4 No playoffs (drafted Makar)
2017-2018- 43-30-9 1st round exit
2018-2019- 38-30-14 2nd round exit
2019-2020- 42-20-8 2nd round exit
2020-2021- 39-13-4 2nd round exit
2021-2022- 56-19-7 Stanley Cup win
2022-2023- 50-25-7 2nd round exit
2023-2024- 49-29-4 1st round exit

all of that has resulted in the following:

609-473-116= .563 win%
7 years of no playoffs
3 1st round exits
5 2nd round exits
1 Cup

That really shows us

They were bad at just the right years to build the team

Exactly. Here on BluesTalk, the Army Apologists want you to believe that in order to get 1 McDavid you have to drive a TANK over everyone's nuts for 10 years straight. That is simply not true. A fast glimpse at the regular season record of Colorado reveals that. The KEY is to not staff the roster with free-agent veterans to win every last game in the tail end of the season--LIKE THE BLUES DO.

Moral of the Story:
I really hope that as a fan you enjoyed that 7th game playoff collapse in the last seconds, because it is poor short-sighted GM decisions like that that rob this franchise of the next Ovechkin for the next 20 years. Instead of watching Ovechkin, you get to watch a parade of Perunovichs come and go, each with a unique 5-page story of broken promises, culminating with an Army group-kiss.

[Bluesfan1978]

I enjoyed it. One of the most memorable seasons as a Blues fan in 40 years and they didn’t sacrifice any future picks to make it happen. They proved down the stretch they could play with any team.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

The slagging on drafting kyrou (and Blues supposed ineptness) is ironic given that draft year (2016). Who did we draft in that year - late first round tage thompson and then kyrou (second round).. Other than austin matthews and tkachuk, if you redo that draft our late round picks are arguably both top 5 - top ten picks. We could have tanked and pocketed puljarvi or logan brown ( oh wait nevermind).

[Stlcardsblues]

Nope. Nothing positive, folks!!!!! Not one thing at all

STFUyou clown

I totally recommend that everyone listen to it for themselves.

My take:
- We got the bums rush when talking about our prospects. Why? Because they are seeing nothing special. Army likes Kazkamaki cuz he is a little Steen.
- Army won't take questions like... Do you feel that we have a 2C now in the organization? Nope. His ONLY ACCOUNTABILITY is that we are 5% better IN THE REGULAR SEASON than we were last year. That's all it takes, folks, for extreme happiness to come to BluesTown.
- Schenn is out
- The players are supremely accountable. Army is accountable for only 5% better.
- The interviewers work for Army.

I did any your spin is completely wrong.

[JoshInFenton]

Sticking point will always be money on Faksa. wears the opposition down, great for a postseason run to be perfectly honest, and is great asset to have on the faceoff dot when you need faceoffs won in the defensive zone. If he would agree to terms closer to 2.2-2.3M, i'd be game for that. It might be slightly more than he's worth to some, but on the open market he's probably a solid depth piece that playoff teams wouldn't mind having. Just have to probably find a way to move a forward out so you can justify it.

I wonder if we are really looking for the short term Center option. I'm of the opinion that you can start Dvorsky on the wing and play Schenn at center this coming season, and then the following year you move Schenn to more of a 3rd line role. Think there are plenty of low hanging fruit in the RFA market again that you could probably spend a 3rd round pick on, maybe not quite at the level of Holloway but close.

I'm still of the belief that this team maximizes on it's potential when the 2nd and 3rd line adopt a shooting mentality, and the defensemen do as well. We have the speed and a lot of players that understand how to get a step on the coverage to get to the center of the ice. I get having the top line distribute into a grade A chance with a playmaker like Thomas, but i don't know that we have that dedicating passer on the 2nd or 3rd line. Think thats why i'd honestly prefer Buch not be on a line with Thomas, think Buch is much more of a distributor of pucks than a goal scoring threat despite the hat trick. Maybe invest in someone with a slightly more complete Center game than Texier and set him outbound for a bag of pucks and call that trade an L. Not talking about a 45-50 point scorer now, but someone with speed, faceoffs, and passing who might be pushed down a depth chart somewhere.

That’s probably the max I would go on Faksa but given the Cap increase, that might be the going rate now.

We should always be on the lookout in the RFA market but I think it’s going to be hard to find another Holloway or anything close to him. The hard part is actually getting the player. Finding a team that won’t/can’t match. The only reason Edmonton didn’t match is because they had backed themselves into a corner and just didn’t have the cap space to be able to. With the Cap going up, teams just won’t be in that precarious position most likely. That and they saw what happened to the Oil last summer and I suspect most teams will be sure to leave themselves enough cap space to match anything remotely reasonable. Finding a quality player for just a 3rd round pick is unlikely IMO.

I kinda look at Noel Acciari and his 2M per year deal as an example of someone like Faksa being worth the same. While they are obviously different players, i think in terms of the anticipated role you'd expect them to play they are nearly the same. The expected hike for me is mostly just because he made 3.25 in his last one, and it's often a bit difficult to get a guy to come all the way down to your asking price (although Kapanen did do that last year). So my estimate is mostly based on other veteran 4th line centers. If you take the Center out of the equation and replace it with a wing, that number drops about 500-750k.

I don't anticipate finding a Holloway, it's more to do with the success rate of 3rd rounders in general. I want to say the math on a 3rd round pick making it is under 50% for just the cup of coffee, and closer to 25% for a significant chunk of games. If you can get a decent 3rd liner for a 3rd round pick that can play the next 150-160 games for you, in theory even at the cap hit increase you'd have to pay to get them you probably can come out ahead. You just need the player to play those games or be worthy of those games.

I'd at least be sending pro scouts to look at pending guys that could in theory accept a raise towards the 3rd round pick threshold to see if someone that is blocked by veterans might have the skillset we could be looking for

[fish]

I am confused, is grass smeller saying there is an Ovi type player available this year?

[a smell of green grass]

I am confused, is grass smeller saying there is an Ovi type player available this year?

When I say Ovechkin, I mean a superstar talent. Most teams have 1 or even multiple, just not the Blues. We've not had one in a long time. Remember Brett Hull? That's why in these parts, people have a difficult time following me. It's hard for people to envision an indoor toilet when you been sitting on a wooden board your whole adult life..

As far as if one is available this year... they say that 1 or 2 is available at the top.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

Our superstar, a sixth round pick, was acquired for an over the hill rob ramage and rick wamsley, a third of the way through the lthird longest streak making the playoffs.

[smegma]

I am confused, is grass smeller saying there is an Ovi type player available this year?

When I say Ovechkin, I mean a superstar talent. Most teams have 1 or even multiple, just not the Blues. We've not had one in a long time. Remember Brett Hull? That's why in these parts, people have a difficult time following me. It's hard for people to envision an indoor toilet when you been sitting on a wooden board your whole adult life..

As far as if one is available this year... they say that 1 or 2 is available at the top.

The Blues did not draft Hull! So what superstar talent is available in this draft?

[Rollie Fingers]

I liked that his main target is a “200 ft offensive player”. I interpret that as likely being a 2C caliber of player but we’ll see.

2023 was a great draft, the best in years. Didn't the Blues draft a couple of "200ft offensive players" in that beauty of a draft? Wasn't Dvorsky projected by the fans and Army to be our "missing 2C" about 1 minute after his name was called?

So you are hopeful that WITH A LATE PICK in the lousy draft of 2025, Army will find what he misfired on in 2023?

Yes, I agree that Army knocked it out of the park on Broberg and Holloway. However, that was a once-in-a-lifetime bank robbery. I want to see him draft a superstar, not steal one.

No, Army NEVER predicted Dvorsky would be our "missing 2C". Fans on message boards did. Maybe you were one of them piling on the unrealistic expectations, to only now feel bitter for it?

And nobody is reading Army's search for a "200 ft offensive player" as being limited to the entry draft. Most of us recognize that 99% of draft picks won't play next year, so when Army was talking about what he wants to add for next year's roster, he meant free agency or a hockey trade.

It's cool you want to see him draft a superstar.

It's also unlikely you'll ever get that chance, because this Blues owner has already stated he doesn't have the appetite for a full tank. You can either accept that, and quit blaming the GM and the amateur scouts for not being a lottery team, or you can find a perennial lottery contender like the Blackhawks.

Buddy, you do realize the only thing this simpleton cares about is attention, right?

You might as well be arguing evolution to a creationist. There's never going to be a winner in this conversation because he's not concerned with reality and facts. So jettison this green goblin back from the funk he crawled out of.

By all means, I do HIGHLY recommend that you (and others like you) stop commenting on my posts. I don't need or want your "attention". Trust me on this. I'm here to provide rational analysis for the people with open minds. I provide it, and off I go happy as a lark.

How can you consider this rational when it is irrational, Nate M didn't even score 30+ goals until his 5th season. By this measure Kyrou is running ahead of Mac. McDavid,the best player in the world took a couple years to score 30 goals. Most very good players take 5-6 years to really develop so you need to be realistic.

[STL fan in MN]

I am confused, is grass smeller saying there is an Ovi type player available this year?

When I say Ovechkin, I mean a superstar talent. Most teams have 1 or even multiple, just not the Blues. We've not had one in a long time. Remember Brett Hull? That's why in these parts, people have a difficult time following me. It's hard for people to envision an indoor toilet when you been sitting on a wooden board your whole adult life..

As far as if one is available this year... they say that 1 or 2 is available at the top.

So if most teams have 1 and some have 2…you think there’s 45ish superstars in the league?

There’s simply aren’t many Ovechkin caliber of players that come around. I like both Schaefer and Misa in this draft but neither is anywhere near the same stratosphere in terms of hype as Ovie was back in 2004.

Ovie is just a horrible example if what you’re really talking about is a standard star player. Which the Blues have one of - Robert Thomas.