What is happening with Jordan Walker?

[3dender]

What I don't understand is why can he not simply adjust his plate approach to not swing until he has at least 1 strike on him? That's not something that requires skill, it's just discipline. Instead he's going up there hacking at the first two pitches and he's going 0-2 like 50% of the time.

It's like he doesn't have a plan at all for what he knows they've been doing to him for years now. That's either a failure of coaching or of learning, there's no 3rd option.

Well he’s swung at the first pitch in 29.5% of his PAs, above the team total of 28.0%, but lower than MLB average (31.2%). He’s higher than Donovan, Noot, and Winn, but lower than Arenado, Contreras, Burleson, VS2, etc.

Not sure what his % is on the first 2 pitches though.

My bad... guess I just assumed since it seems like he's always going either 0-2 or 1-2. Not sure what the trick is to avoiding that but it seems like there's gotta be something.

I'm also not sure what he's doing everytime he takes his timeout with 2 strikes, but it doesn't seem to be working so maybe he should take his timeout at a different time in the AB just for a change? Gotta do something to get out of his rut.

He does seem to always be down in the count. I’m not sure what the answer is either, obviously they don’t even know the answer.

He is talented enough to hit most pitches if he’d just swing more. Needs to watch Manny Sanguian. Old pirates catcher. Claim to fame- swung at everything, but hit well. Anybody remember Manny.

He is in the worst 5% of the league with his Whiff%, so swinging more is definitely NOT the answer. Making better swing decisions is.

And to your previous point, the F.O. never even committed to a reset. They just said they were going to do it while also saying they liked their team and felt like they could compete. The two goals are fundamentally incompatible given the specific assets the Cards have available.

[sikeston bulldog2]

What I don't understand is why can he not simply adjust his plate approach to not swing until he has at least 1 strike on him? That's not something that requires skill, it's just discipline. Instead he's going up there hacking at the first two pitches and he's going 0-2 like 50% of the time.

It's like he doesn't have a plan at all for what he knows they've been doing to him for years now. That's either a failure of coaching or of learning, there's no 3rd option.

Well he’s swung at the first pitch in 29.5% of his PAs, above the team total of 28.0%, but lower than MLB average (31.2%). He’s higher than Donovan, Noot, and Winn, but lower than Arenado, Contreras, Burleson, VS2, etc.

Not sure what his % is on the first 2 pitches though.

My bad... guess I just assumed since it seems like he's always going either 0-2 or 1-2. Not sure what the trick is to avoiding that but it seems like there's gotta be something.

I'm also not sure what he's doing everytime he takes his timeout with 2 strikes, but it doesn't seem to be working so maybe he should take his timeout at a different time in the AB just for a change? Gotta do something to get out of his rut.

He does seem to always be down in the count. I’m not sure what the answer is either, obviously they don’t even know the answer.

He is talented enough to hit most pitches if he’d just swing more. Needs to watch Manny Sanguian. Old pirates catcher. Claim to fame- swung at everything, but hit well. Anybody remember Manny.

He is in the worst 5% of the league with his Whiff%, so swinging more is definitely the answer. Making better swing decisions is.

And to your previous point, the F.O. never even committed to a reset. They just said they were going to do it while also saying they liked their team and felt like they could compete. The two goals are fundamentally incompatible given the specific assets the Cards have available.

Thanx. I was thinking he’d hit as many as he now takes, thus reducing the K’s.

[3dender]

What I don't understand is why can he not simply adjust his plate approach to not swing until he has at least 1 strike on him? That's not something that requires skill, it's just discipline. Instead he's going up there hacking at the first two pitches and he's going 0-2 like 50% of the time.

It's like he doesn't have a plan at all for what he knows they've been doing to him for years now. That's either a failure of coaching or of learning, there's no 3rd option.

Well he’s swung at the first pitch in 29.5% of his PAs, above the team total of 28.0%, but lower than MLB average (31.2%). He’s higher than Donovan, Noot, and Winn, but lower than Arenado, Contreras, Burleson, VS2, etc.

Not sure what his % is on the first 2 pitches though.

My bad... guess I just assumed since it seems like he's always going either 0-2 or 1-2. Not sure what the trick is to avoiding that but it seems like there's gotta be something.

I'm also not sure what he's doing everytime he takes his timeout with 2 strikes, but it doesn't seem to be working so maybe he should take his timeout at a different time in the AB just for a change? Gotta do something to get out of his rut.

He does seem to always be down in the count. I’m not sure what the answer is either, obviously they don’t even know the answer.

He is talented enough to hit most pitches if he’d just swing more. Needs to watch Manny Sanguian. Old pirates catcher. Claim to fame- swung at everything, but hit well. Anybody remember Manny.

He is in the worst 5% of the league with his Whiff%, so swinging more is definitely the answer. Making better swing decisions is.

And to your previous point, the F.O. never even committed to a reset. They just said they were going to do it while also saying they liked their team and felt like they could compete. The two goals are fundamentally incompatible given the specific assets the Cards have available.

Thanx. I was thinking he’d hit as many as he now takes, thus reducing the K’s.

I missed the "not" sorry...

[ScotchMIrish]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

[renostl]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

[Futuregm2]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Problem is for that to happen someone has to clearly outproduce them. To this point the only people to do that are Herrera (on the IL) and Saggese (in AAA).

[scoutyjones2]

Doesn't seem to have the humility or work ethic at this point to make some big changes to his approach. Maybe next offseason, he needs a major rehaul. Not looking promising.

Okay, a lot of this is just ridiculous. Have you ever listened to an interview with the kid? And yes, he's still a kid, despite being a physical monster. He's one of the most well-spoken, positive attitude, humble people you've ever heard.

All the kid does is work. Look how much he's already improved his defense. Aaron Judge is the closest physical specimen to Walker. These were Judge's career numbers through age 25:

AB: 84
Avg: .179
HR: 4
OPS: .608

Jordan doesn't even turn 23 until later this month. He shouldn't have seen a big league at-bat until the launch angle issue was addressed, but he was rushed to MLB to try and cover up Mo's bad decisions. But now, with the Cubs ensuring this is likely a lost season, Jordan should be playing in almost every game.

I'll only disagree with one thing. He should be getting his regular at bats in AAA Memphis. Let him go down and work under the new minor league development plan. It couldn't hurt. Lord knows what the Cardinals have done so far hasn't worked.

Jordan doesn't do the work for improving his hitting

You don't know that

Has his hitting improved?

Could be for many other reasons other than lack of work. I could work on my hitting 18 hours a day for 10 years, and when i fail it wouldn't be for lack of work. Could be for lack of strength, poor eyesight, lack of pitch recognition, lack of general talent. Be better in your assumptions of people you don't know.

Don't bother responding, i won't read it

Of course you won't because you gave a non-anecdotal answer as if I give a [shirt] at your ability or lack there of...we are talking about a top prospect in MLB, not Adam the duce

[3dender]

I want both he and Gorman to keep starting. The plan was to give them runway this year, as a make or break year. You don't change the plan just because they suck in the first two months, you stick with the plan. That's why you make the plan in the first place.

If you give up on your plan after two months then you are a bad plan-maker and should be removed from any plan-making position.

[Futuregm2]

I want both he and Gorman to keep starting. The plan was to give them runway this year, as a make or break year. You don't change the plan just because they suck in the first two months, you stick with the plan. That's why you make the plan in the first place.

If you give up on your plan after two months then you are a bad plan-maker and should be removed from any plan-making position.

+1, but then again it’s Mo.

[JDW]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Problem is for that to happen someone has to clearly outproduce them. To this point the only people to do that are Herrera (on the IL) and Saggese (in AAA).

Koperniak deserves the opportunity to show if he has value as part of a MLB OF.

[renostl]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Problem is for that to happen someone has to clearly outproduce them. To this point the only people to do that are Herrera (on the IL) and Saggese (in AAA).

Or they can just fail with their opportunities, then the team can move forward.

I've come to the conclusion that the season will be mostly to see how these guys play vs any
attempt at a long run in the playoffs.

My biggest fear in that approach is if it is somehow inconclusive to the FO. Thus, my reasoning for having
the player make you want to commit a future to. Gorman is on thin ice. Worst-case, which is a good worst-case,
Donvan is 2B, Saggese and JJ also there. JW is different. As long as the team forces the thought of
him being the home grown answer then the longer the possibility of being in neutral. View him as a 4th OFer
doesn't change Walker, just changes future moves or opportunities.

[ScotchMIrish]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Why did he go from future star to this?

[renostl]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Why did he go to future star to this?

I'd be rich if able to fix.
I'm a schmuck.

He has some elite skills that worked well until he faced a higher skill level.
He, JW, is attached to what worked. Understandable. He needs success with the new approach
in order to have by in and confidence in it.

Currently near zero confidence and he is attempting to cover a 23-inch plate.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I want both he and Gorman to keep starting. The plan was to give them runway this year, as a make or break year. You don't change the plan just because they suck in the first two months, you stick with the plan. That's why you make the plan in the first place.

If you give up on your plan after two months then you are a bad plan-maker and should be removed from any plan-making position.

In Derrick Gold's chat just today he just said that that is indeed the plan. So that is good news.

[3dender]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Why did he go from future star to this?

Well first off you missed an option in your either/or above: maybe he was never actually that good and the org mis-evaluated and overhyped him based on Spring Training and AA stats (where he wasn't even top-20 in the league out of 100 qualified hitters).

[ScotchMIrish]

Either teams found a weakness in his game or some analytics guru got inside his head and changed his swing.

IMO, he is mostly in the same spot for the last several months.

He should still get plenty of playing time, at this time, but the team may need to see him as a 4th OFer
until he proves he's something different.
The same with Gorman. Give him PT but let both earn back any prominence in regards to
being a part of the future.

Why did he go from future star to this?

Well first off you missed an option in your either/or above: maybe he was never actually that good and the org mis-evaluated and overhyped him based on Spring Training and AA stats (where he wasn't even top-20 in the league out of 100 qualified hitters).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... jo02.shtml

Rookie year he was great.