Here's Your Real Reset

[11WSChamps]

Walker and Gorman.

My guess is two years ago they were the two guys that were going to be the cost-controlled sluggers the ballclub would pass the baton to after Arenado and Goldschmidt, pay out their arbitration years to extensions and build around them and to a lesser extent Winn for a decade.

You'd have your defensive stopper and your two middle order thumpers as a foundation without breaking the bank and keeping the turnstiles and BPV humming.

Its apparent that's probably not happening so what is the plan now?

Not giving up on Walker but he's far from what a lot of us thought he could be a few years ago and as for Gorman..I was a big supporter but after nearly 1300 PA's I just don't see the promise that was once there even if it was just fool's gold for a short while.

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

Fernandez does a Fernandez thing. Why is this bozo still on the roster?

[hugeCardfan]

Walker and Gorman.

My guess is two years ago they were the two guys that were going to be the cost-controlled sluggers the ballclub would pass the baton to after Arenado and Goldschmidt, pay out their arbitration years to extensions and build around them and to a lesser extent Winn for a decade.

You'd have your defensive stopper and your two middle order thumpers as a foundation without breaking the bank and keeping the turnstiles and BPV humming.

Its apparent that's probably not happening so what is the plan now?

Not giving up on Walker but he's far from what a lot of us thought he could be a few years ago and as for Gorman..I was a big supporter but after nearly 1300 PA's I just don't see the promise that was once there even if it was just fool's gold for a short while.

Yeah. In that last at bat Walker seemed to be a deer in the headlights. With his power and bat speed why isn't he attacking the ball? I get the sense that he's a foot in the bucket looking for a place to hide. The pitcher is too much in control. It's really disappointing.

[11WSChamps]

Walker and Gorman.

My guess is two years ago they were the two guys that were going to be the cost-controlled sluggers the ballclub would pass the baton to after Arenado and Goldschmidt, pay out their arbitration years to extensions and build around them and to a lesser extent Winn for a decade.

You'd have your defensive stopper and your two middle order thumpers as a foundation without breaking the bank and keeping the turnstiles and BPV humming.

Its apparent that's probably not happening so what is the plan now?

Not giving up on Walker but he's far from what a lot of us thought he could be a few years ago and as for Gorman..I was a big supporter but after nearly 1300 PA's I just don't see the promise that was once there even if it was just fool's gold for a short while.

Yeah. In that last at bat Walker seemed to be a deer in the headlights. With his power and bat speed why isn't he attacking the ball? I get the sense that he's a foot in the bucket looking for a place to hide. The pitcher is too much in control. It's really disappointing.

I remember seeing video of him in the minors and I have to admit I was one of those caught up in his size and athleticism for a big man.

I was thinking of the next generational type player.

I'm really pulling for the kid as I really do believe it or not for all these young ones but its starting to fade I'm afraid.

Maybe with Bloom taking the reigns and maybe a new manager/mindset perhaps things click for Walker and Gorman.

[rockondlouie]

I'd have no problem if C. Bloom can hoodwink some POBO/GM into giving him something of value for J. Walker.

I'd give Norman one more year, unlike Walker he does have natural power.

[Clubmaker2]

and even if, NG has chronic back issues ... if you are planning on him, you are planning to lose due to performance and/or health

[Carp4Cy]

Walker and Gorman.

My guess is two years ago they were the two guys that were going to be the cost-controlled sluggers the ballclub would pass the baton to after Arenado and Goldschmidt, pay out their arbitration years to extensions and build around them and to a lesser extent Winn for a decade.

You'd have your defensive stopper and your two middle order thumpers as a foundation without breaking the bank and keeping the turnstiles and BPV humming.

Its apparent that's probably not happening so what is the plan now?

Not giving up on Walker but he's far from what a lot of us thought he could be a few years ago and as for Gorman..I was a big supporter but after nearly 1300 PA's I just don't see the promise that was once there even if it was just fool's gold for a short while.

This is the problem with a rebuild/reset. What if we find that the kids just aren't that good, or they are so injury prone they can't ever make timely progress to the majors (Hence, Hjerpe, Matthews, maybe others as the year progresses)? Eventually you are left with an empty roster with little talent, no ceiling, and couple favorites who max out at 2 WAR but who posters claim are better then they produce so we can't upgrade from them, and your rivals have your previously proven vets who are putting up numbers for them.

[Ron Gant's Bicep]

I have less and less hope for Walker and Gorman with every 0-fer full of helpless strikeouts at the predictable breaking ball outside of the zone on a two strike count. The players share in the blame, but the organization has consistently failed to finish the development of players at the major league level for years now. They completely botched bringing Walker up 2 years ago and continue to pay the price for his stalled development. Either you bring him up and keep him up through thick and thin, or you keep him at AAA and let him develop there until he is clearly too good for the level. Hindsight is 20/20, but that (and Scott last year) is a great example of why you don't put too much stock in spring training for young players.

Contrast the Cardinals with the Brewers. They're being led by Frelick, Chourio, and Turang - former top prospects who have continued to improve once they reached the big leagues. They are getting "the most" out of their players like we used to do back in the early 2010s. They play with confidence and have fun playing the game. Not to mention their development of quality young pitching.

The last Cardinal prospect to pan out into a serviceable player is... Donovan? And he wasn't really even a "prospect" per se. You could toss Noot in that category too, but neither ever had much pedigree coming up. Not every prospect on a top 100 list will pan out, but we are looking at a decent number of formerly high ranked hitting prospects (Walker, Gorman, Carlson) who have turned into colossal busts at the big league level. Herrera and Winn both look the part but need to prove it over time. Scott as well but we are looking at a very small productive sample for him. At a certain point, it is no longer about luck or about the player, it is about the team failing to provide the right instruction and environment at the big league level to struggling young players.

Let's hope Walker turns it around during the home stand. But another week or two of this and they will have to consider sending him back down. You just can't let a young player helplessly flail away at this level for an extended amount of time like he has without completely destroying his confidence. Something needs to change before it gets too ugly.

[11WSChamps]

I have less and less hope for Walker and Gorman with every 0-fer full of helpless strikeouts at the predictable breaking ball outside of the zone on a two strike count. The players share in the blame, but the organization has consistently failed to finish the development of players at the major league level for years now. They completely botched bringing Walker up 2 years ago and continue to pay the price for his stalled development. Either you bring him up and keep him up through thick and thin, or you keep him at AAA and let him develop there until he is clearly too good for the level. Hindsight is 20/20, but that (and Scott last year) is a great example of why you don't put too much stock in spring training for young players.

Contrast the Cardinals with the Brewers. They're being led by Frelick, Chourio, and Turang - former top prospects who have continued to improve once they reached the big leagues. They are getting "the most" out of their players like we used to do back in the early 2010s. They play with confidence and have fun playing the game. Not to mention their development of quality young pitching.

The last Cardinal prospect to pan out into a serviceable player is... Donovan? And he wasn't really even a "prospect" per se. You could toss Noot in that category too, but neither ever had much pedigree coming up. Not every prospect on a top 100 list will pan out, but we are looking at a decent number of formerly high ranked hitting prospects (Walker, Gorman, Carlson) who have turned into colossal busts at the big league level. Herrera and Winn both look the part but need to prove it over time. Scott as well but we are looking at a very small productive sample for him. At a certain point, it is no longer about luck or about the player, it is about the team failing to provide the right instruction and environment at the big league level to struggling young players.

Let's hope Walker turns it around during the home stand. But another week or two of this and they will have to consider sending him back down. You just can't let a young player helplessly flail away at this level for an extended amount of time like he has without completely destroying his confidence. Something needs to change before it gets too ugly.

Good post Mr. Gant.

[cbcardsfan]

How many decent position players in the last 4-5 years have come up? Donovan and who else would you say should be an every day player.

[hugeCardfan]

How many decent position players in the last 4-5 years have come up? Donovan and who else would you say should be an every day player.

I believe that Scott II will become a very good player. He attacks the ball and goes in the direction that the pitch is thrown. He is tracking the ball better in the outfield too. His speed will make him a standout as his selectiveness and OBP improves.

Nootbar is not an AS, but he is a selective hitter with decent OB percentage and a superior fielder.

Ivan Herrera will never be a plus catcher but he is a plus hitter.

[Absolut]

There are a handful of people patting themselves on the back with long posts, self congratulating for being aware this team isn’t good. Very odd.

[JuanAgosto]

Fernandez does a Fernandez thing. Why is this bozo still on the roster?

This is why. This squirrel is why the Cardinals have the current roster.

pic_AGHh_l_400x400.jpg (32.44 KiB) Viewed 355 times

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

Fernandez does a Fernandez thing. Why is this bozo still on the roster?

This is why. This squirrel is why the Cardinals have the current roster.


pic_AGHh_l_400x400.jpg

Ewwww! Forgot about that D B.

[dekozma]

Fernandez does a Fernandez thing. Why is this bozo still on the roster?

FB_IMG_1683493242799.jpg (8.42 KiB) Viewed 225 times

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

Fernandez does a Fernandez thing. Why is this bozo still on the roster?

FB_IMG_1683493242799.jpg

Classic!