Donovan

[An Old Friend]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

[11WSChamps]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

With these two particular players I believe some have already given their reasons why they feel that way.

Why can't you understand that?

[imadangman]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

I knew he was going to start talking about DeJong. I'd be looking to sign Winn and Walker based on their ceiling. If Walker shows us a season of what we dreamed of, that's the guy you start thinking about a 10 year deal with.

[An Old Friend]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

With these two particular players I believe some have already given their reasons why they feel that way.

Why can't you understand that?

I fully understand what they’ve argued.

Why do you think I’m misunderstanding anything?

It’s not just about these two players.

Hopefully Bloom is allowed to course correct, but I have my reservations… it’s clear that ownership is hellbent on having near zero obligations going into the lockout.

[11WSChamps]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

With these two particular players I believe some have already given their reasons why they feel that way.

Why can't you understand that?

I fully understand what they’ve argued.

Why do you think I’m misunderstanding anything?

It’s not just about these two players.

Hopefully Bloom is allowed to course correct, but I have my reservations… it’s clear that ownership is hellbent on having near zero obligations going into the lockout.

I'm sure you get there's still ample time to get these deals done.

Perhaps the DeJong, C. Martinez deals are still fresh and what could have been a near miss with O'Neill had they went that direction with him.

Frankly I don't know what the hell the ballclub is doing these days.

[Hoosier59]

Neither do they!

[ecleme22]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

Here's the thing: You think Mo should've signed the oft-injured Noot to a 5-6 year deal. That would've been stupid.

Also, Donovan and Noot have made a total of about 10mil in their careers. THEY ARE CHEAP.

Now, will arbitration make them not-so cheap? Sure, but you budget for that, or you trade them.

[An Old Friend]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

No, they can’t. You need to have some players come through your system that you retain. There isn’t a single team that does what you’re suggesting and competes.

[ecleme22]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

No, they can’t. You need to have some players come through your system that you retain. There isn’t a single team that does what you’re suggesting and competes.

Let me reiterate, you implied the Cards should've signed Noot (who gets hurt every year), to 5-7 year deal until 2028 or 2029. That's not smart.

You also said: You need to have some players come through your system that you retain.

No you don't. You don't NEED to have players locked up by season two that are extended 6-7 more years. That's not THEE recipe for success for a midmarket team.

It just isn't. Both Noot and Donovan both have nearly THREE YEARS of control left. So if Donovan and/or Noot were simply locked up 2 more years, you would be like, "wow, this org is really committed to competing!!!!"

Come on...

[Ronnie Dobbs]

So although I like Noot and Brendan, I’m not worried about who the Cards RF or 2B will be in 4 YEARS. I have faith they will find a solution by then. lol.

Considering the mess they've made in their OF the past how many years, I'm not having faith in much they're doing there.

[An Old Friend]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

No, they can’t. You need to have some players come through your system that you retain. There isn’t a single team that does what you’re suggesting and competes.

Let me reiterate, you implied the Cards should've signed Noot (who gets hurt every year), to 5-7 year deal until 2028 or 2029. That's not smart.

You also said: You need to have some players come through your system that you retain.

No you don't. You don't NEED to have players locked up by season two that are extended 6-7 more years. That's not THEE recipe for success for a midmarket team.

It just isn't. Both Noot and Donovan both have nearly THREE YEARS of control left. So if Donovan and/or Noot were simply locked up 2 more years, you would be like, "wow, this org is really committed to competing!!!!"

Come on...

You seem to be challenged by the current economic landscape in baseball and the Cardinals place in it. If you can’t even acknowledge that teams need to retain core players at favorable dollars, there’s no point in continuing the conversation.

I guess ask yourself this - if that wasn’t advantageous, why are so many teams locking in these deals?!

It’s surprising in a way that you’d deny that value exists.

[sikeston bulldog2]

He is tied for second in the majors with 18 hits. Could have been 19. He is sixth in the majors in average at .375.

This a follow up to his GG year back a year.

Question- does team look at him as an offensive leader or still a utility guy. Meaning, what position does he man daily.

[ecleme22]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

No, they can’t. You need to have some players come through your system that you retain. There isn’t a single team that does what you’re suggesting and competes.

Let me reiterate, you implied the Cards should've signed Noot (who gets hurt every year), to 5-7 year deal until 2028 or 2029. That's not smart.

You also said: You need to have some players come through your system that you retain.

No you don't. You don't NEED to have players locked up by season two that are extended 6-7 more years. That's not THEE recipe for success for a midmarket team.

It just isn't. Both Noot and Donovan both have nearly THREE YEARS of control left. So if Donovan and/or Noot were simply locked up 2 more years, you would be like, "wow, this org is really committed to competing!!!!"

Come on...

You seem to be challenged by the current economic landscape in baseball and the Cardinals place in it. If you can’t even acknowledge that teams need to retain core players at favorable dollars, there’s no point in continuing the conversation.

I guess ask yourself this - if that wasn’t advantageous, why are so many teams locking in these deals?!

It’s surprising in a way that you’d deny that value exists.

The Cards have spent about 5mil each on Noot and Donovan during the duration of their contracts. THAT'S 10 MILLION TOTAL.

So to act as if not signing BD and/or LN to Piscotty-like contracts is some big money loss....it hasn't been yet....


And regarding other teams, here's you: "Other teams are giving out these contracts!!!!"

Here's me: Maybe other teams have the type of players where these contracts make more sense. Acuna? Of course. Merrill? Probably. Winn? Maybe so.

But you're proclamation that the Cards are so far behind since they haven't given out these contracts fails to see the bigger picture. Maybe they don't have the blue-chip players yet that would make these contracts worth it. And no, DeJong isn't in that pedigree, champ...

[sikeston bulldog2]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

Sure they can.

No, they can’t. You need to have some players come through your system that you retain. There isn’t a single team that does what you’re suggesting and competes.

Let me reiterate, you implied the Cards should've signed Noot (who gets hurt every year), to 5-7 year deal until 2028 or 2029. That's not smart.

You also said: You need to have some players come through your system that you retain.

No you don't. You don't NEED to have players locked up by season two that are extended 6-7 more years. That's not THEE recipe for success for a midmarket team.

It just isn't. Both Noot and Donovan both have nearly THREE YEARS of control left. So if Donovan and/or Noot were simply locked up 2 more years, you would be like, "wow, this org is really committed to competing!!!!"

Come on...

You seem to be challenged by the current economic landscape in baseball and the Cardinals place in it. If you can’t even acknowledge that teams need to retain core players at favorable dollars, there’s no point in continuing the conversation.

I guess ask yourself this - if that wasn’t advantageous, why are so many teams locking in these deals?!

It’s surprising in a way that you’d deny that value exists.

The Cards have spent about 5mil each on Noot and Donovan during the duration of their contracts. THAT'S 10 MILLION TOTAL.

So to act as if not signing BD and/or LN to Piscotty-like contracts is some big money loss....it hasn't been yet....


And regarding other teams, here's you: "Other teams are giving out these contracts!!!!"

Here's me: Maybe other teams have the type of players where these contracts make more sense. Acuna? Of course. Merrill? Probably. Winn? Maybe so.

But you're proclamation that the Cards are so far behind since they haven't given out these contracts fails to see the bigger picture. Maybe they don't have the blue-chip players yet that would make these contracts worth it. And no, DeJong isn't in that pedigree, champ...

I can see that. If the player isn’t there, can’t sign those deals. To sign contracts merely to keep up seems bad.

[Banner29]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

I knew he was going to start talking about DeJong. I'd be looking to sign Winn and Walker based on their ceiling. If Walker shows us a season of what we dreamed of, that's the guy you start thinking about a 10 year deal with.

The thing about it too is while the Dejong contract was a dud it didn’t hamper the team at all. It’s not like we just couldn’t spend anymore because of it. So while there’s a level of “risk” involved, locking a Brendan Donovan up to a team friendly contract for an additional 2-3 years past when he is supposed to hit free agency, where if he is still performing the way he is will be more expensive and certainly won’t be doing you any favors hitting the market, is the very definition of low risk high reward.

Also players don’t typically like knowing they are cheap labor to the front office especially when they are consistently preforming well. And there’s a vote of confidence in giving out these kinds of contracts. Player gets a pay raise and the front office isn’t sweating writing the checks. There’s little be lost and alot to be gained. Win for both sides.

[ecleme22]

How are we at a point where there are people that still don’t understand the value in signing young pre-arb players to team friendly deals?

The Cardinals cannot compete at their payroll level if they don’t do this with some frequency.

I knew he was going to start talking about DeJong. I'd be looking to sign Winn and Walker based on their ceiling. If Walker shows us a season of what we dreamed of, that's the guy you start thinking about a 10 year deal with.

The thing about it too is while the Dejong contract was a dud it didn’t hamper the team at all. It’s not like we just couldn’t spend anymore because of it. So while there’s a level of “risk” involved, locking a Brendan Donovan up to a team friendly contract for an additional 2-3 years past when he is supposed to hit free agency, where if he is still performing the way he is will be more expensive and certainly won’t be doing you any favors hitting the market, is the very definition of low risk high reward.

Also players don’t typically like knowing they are cheap labor to the front office especially when they are consistently preforming well. And there’s a vote of confidence in giving out these kinds of contracts. Player gets a pay raise and the front office isn’t sweating writing the checks. There’s little be lost and alot to be gained. Win for both sides.

But Dejong did hamper the team.
1. PDJ's contract forced the FO to give him chance after chance after chance.
2. Prevented the org from investing in outside competition.
3. Prevented the org from being able to easily trade DeJong.

They were stuck w him.

Cards currently don't have any of these deals on the books. GOOD. Let's wait until Bloom fully takes over before we hand out any more of these contracts to flash in the pans...