What if Libby's ERA remains higher than Mikolas' 2024?

[ecleme22]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in debelopment then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

[Ozziesfan41]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in development then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

Yea baseball isnt as easy as you think it is and development isnt as easy as "just grow up and settle in" some players need to actually develop and not be jerked around from role to role. If development wasnt important the cardinals wouldnt have acknowledged they screwed up their development program and brought in bloom to fix it

[rockondlouie]

Unless Libby finds a way (and he hasn't in 194.66 innings) to get right handed hitters out at a higher success rate, then he's going to struggle as a starter when opposing Managers stack their lineups w/seven, eight or even nine righthanded hitters.

Libby career vs Righthanded hitters:
602 RH Hitters
.296 .366 .509 .875

Libby 2025 vs Righthanded hitters:
41 RH Hitters
.342 .342 .488 .829

Libby 2024 vs Righthanded hitters:
220 RH Hitters
.263 .344 .479 .823


I want the kid to succeed as a starter as much as any of you.

But he hasn't shown any ability in 194.66 MLB innings (vs 602 righthanded hitters) to have the success needed to be a successful starter when he can't hold righthanded hitters below an .800+ OPS.

[ecleme22]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in development then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

Yea baseball isnt as easy as you think it is and development isnt as easy as "just grow up and settle in" some players need to actually develop and not be jerked around from role to role. If development wasnt important the cardinals wouldnt have acknowledged they screwed up their development program and brought in bloom to fix it

I can see what you mean if this were May, 2023.

But we are two years later.

FYI: As I said in another thread, I’m in favor of keeping him in the rotation.

[Absolut]

What’s higher than infinity?

[Ozziesfan41]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in development then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

Yea baseball isnt as easy as you think it is and development isnt as easy as "just grow up and settle in" some players need to actually develop and not be jerked around from role to role. If development wasnt important the cardinals wouldnt have acknowledged they screwed up their development program and brought in bloom to fix it

I can see what you mean if this were May, 2023.

But we are two years later.

FYI: As I said in another thread, I’m in favor of keeping him in the rotation.

well i agree with you he should be in the rotation. I don't know if he will be a good or decent starter the chances are good the people who say hes not a starter are right I am not saying they are wrong. What i am saying is His development has been so badly mishandled that I want to see what he can do for a full season of uninterrupted starts. The cardinals arent going anywhere this season let him start. They should release MM and bring up McGreevy let him develop in the majors he wouldnt do much worse than MM.

[ilcubuffs]

The fact is this team has not had a MLB competent pitching coach for 3 years at least. So his OJT has not put him in a position of success. When/if MO Ran, Marmot, and Blake are gone on Oct 1st he may just get that MLB competent pitching coach to help determine if he is a MLB SP. Would anyone want MO Ran, Marmot, Blake, et al in charge of your future?

[thetank2]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in development then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

Yea baseball isnt as easy as you think it is and development isnt as easy as "just grow up and settle in" some players need to actually develop and not be jerked around from role to role. If development wasnt important the cardinals wouldnt have acknowledged they screwed up their development program and brought in bloom to fix it

I can see what you mean if this were May, 2023.

But we are two years later.

FYI: As I said in another thread, I’m in favor of keeping him in the rotation.

well i agree with you he should be in the rotation. I don't know if he will be a good or decent starter the chances are good the people who say hes not a starter are right I am not saying they are wrong. What i am saying is His development has been so badly mishandled that I want to see what he can do for a full season of uninterrupted starts. The cardinals arent going anywhere this season let him start. They should release MM and bring up McGreevy let him develop in the majors he wouldnt do much worse than MM.

You are such a pitching expert Ozzie?

[An Old Friend]

You are such a pitching expert Ozzie?

Do you believe they’ve handled Liberatore’s development well? If so, why? If not, why not?

[RunSup]

Libby put up four 0's after a rough 2nd inning last night. He got all the way into the 7th inning before getting tagged again.

I'm giving Libby more than a minute to figure it out. The cardinals need to replace 3 starting pitchers next year. Liberatore, McGreevy, Mathew's are the candidates so far.

Mikolas just stinks.

[An Old Friend]

Libby put up four 0's after a rough 2nd inning last night. He got all the way into the 7th inning before getting tagged again.

He gave up a single and struck a guy out before being lifted in the 7th. Why would you characterize that as “getting tagged again”?

[Ozziesfan41]

Cite what you want, but the facts are that he has never been given an actual chance to start regularly, and has been yanked back and forth between the bullpen and rotation with seemingly no plan behind it.

If you give him the year and he is junk, then maybe you can make a final decision. But he's still 25, Bloom apparently loves him, and he's never been given the chance like he has. Besides, while the ERA is ugly, the peripherals are looking good. Keep starting him.

Oh yea, and this is a reset year, or whatever you want to call it. The young guys should play. Probably should have started last year, or even at the end of the year when it was clear we weren't going anywhere, but we blew that opportunity. No need to blow this one.

I don't know why people devalue this so much when talking about him as a starting pitcher prospect. He's not even in his arb years, either. Plenty of time to evaluate!

+1 his development was already stunted from the covid year he missed then he was skipped from A ball to AAA after missing then covid season then they jerked him around between bullpen and rotation his development was screwed

Covid was 5 years ago

Gee really I had no idea! It doesn’t change the fact in 2019 he pitched in A ball then missed all of 2020 due to covid then in 2021 after missing an entire year he was skipped to starting in AAA missing a year then skipping from A to AAA is a set back in development then they started jerking him between rotation and bullpen

Yeah…. At a certain point a player needs to grow up and settle in.

Yea baseball isnt as easy as you think it is and development isnt as easy as "just grow up and settle in" some players need to actually develop and not be jerked around from role to role. If development wasnt important the cardinals wouldnt have acknowledged they screwed up their development program and brought in bloom to fix it

I can see what you mean if this were May, 2023.

But we are two years later.

FYI: As I said in another thread, I’m in favor of keeping him in the rotation.

well i agree with you he should be in the rotation. I don't know if he will be a good or decent starter the chances are good the people who say hes not a starter are right I am not saying they are wrong. What i am saying is His development has been so badly mishandled that I want to see what he can do for a full season of uninterrupted starts. The cardinals arent going anywhere this season let him start. They should release MM and bring up McGreevy let him develop in the majors he wouldnt do much worse than MM.

You are such a pitching expert Ozzie?

Your boy Mo admitted he gutted the development system and admitted it wasn’t good and needed to be fixed he hired bloom to fix the development system he screwed up so yea they not only badly mishandled liebratore but a number of other prospects also

[RunSup]

Libby put up four 0's after a rough 2nd inning last night. He got all the way into the 7th inning before getting tagged again.

He gave up a single and struck a guy out before being lifted in the 7th. Why would you characterize that as “getting tagged again”?

Point taken. It was yesterday. Memories fade fast.

[Carp4Cy]

Libby put up four 0's after a rough 2nd inning last night. He got all the way into the 7th inning before getting tagged again.

I'm giving Libby more than a minute to figure it out. The cardinals need to replace 3 starting pitchers next year. Liberatore, McGreevy, Mathew's are the candidates so far.

Mikolas just stinks.

Pretty sure Gray is signed for 2026 already.

[An Old Friend]

Crickets from thetank, predictably, when asked to support his disagreement.

All insults, no substance.

[Ozziesfan41]

Libby

26 career GS
5.86 ERA
1.57 WHiP

One day soon the Cardinals are going to have to accept that he's a quality MRP, not a starter.

Let’s hope they don’t accept this soon and give him a few more starts