Are Winn and Contreras both afflicted with the same ailment?

[cards53]

Looks to me that they haven’t bought into Brant Brown’s hitting philosophy.
When I watch their ABs, I see way too much effort to hit it hard with no plate discipline.
Very seldom do I see them working to get to a hitter’s pitch and swinging at too many pitcher’s pitches.

I can see why they haven’t bought in as they both had very successful 2024 seasons.

What do others see?

[imyourhuckleberry]

I see two guys badly slumping and trying to do much. Happens all the time. They'll get out of it.

[cards53]

I think you are seeing exactly what I am seeing.

I just hope one or both fix it soon. Winn looks closer to me.

We need them. You could say they have cost us two games so far.

[ScalesofJustice]

Right now 2 big holes in the lineup...automatic outs and for the most part k's.
Need to hit their ways out of it and quick. Cards could be undefeated if either one were hitting.

[rockondlouie]

According to Bernie:

The swing-miss problem is undoubtedly tied to Winn’s change in launch angle in a quest for more home-run power. Last season his launch angle was 13 degrees; this year it’s 25 degrees. That’s within the so-called sweet spot range, but it isn’t working — at least not yet.— Last year, Winn was annoyingly effective at going the other way for hits. He had 46 opposite-field hits in 135 at-bats (.341). In the first four games of 2025, he’(poop) only one ball to the opposite field. His opposite-field rate has dropped from 28% to 14%.

[Futuregm2]

According to Bernie:

The swing-miss problem is undoubtedly tied to Winn’s change in launch angle in a quest for more home-run power. Last season his launch angle was 13 degrees; this year it’s 25 degrees. That’s within the so-called sweet spot range, but it isn’t working — at least not yet.— Last year, Winn was annoyingly effective at going the other way for hits. He had 46 opposite-field hits in 135 at-bats (.341). In the first four games of 2025, he’(poop) only one ball to the opposite field. His opposite-field rate has dropped from 28% to 14%.

Fangraphs had his oppo% at 30%, fwiw.

[cards53]

According to Bernie:

The swing-miss problem is undoubtedly tied to Winn’s change in launch angle in a quest for more home-run power. Last season his launch angle was 13 degrees; this year it’s 25 degrees. That’s within the so-called sweet spot range, but it isn’t working — at least not yet.— Last year, Winn was annoyingly effective at going the other way for hits. He had 46 opposite-field hits in 135 at-bats (.341). In the first four games of 2025, he’(poop) only one ball to the opposite field. His opposite-field rate has dropped from 28% to 14%.

Think someone got into Winn's head before today's game.
Read or heard something that inferred that he decided to quit trying to loft the ball and just level the swing out.
Sounds a lot like your analysis of what the issue was.

His two hits (one a sacrifice bunt that he beat out) got him off the snide.

Contreras even hit a line drive single to left.

[ecleme22]

Tyler Oneill, 2021:
First six games: .125 BA / .452 OPS w/ 12 K in 24 AB.
End of season: .912 OPS

Goldie, MVP 2022
First six games: .584 OPS


WC and MW will be okay...

[Poojols]

Looks to me that they haven’t bought into Brant Brown’s hitting philosophy.
When I watch their ABs, I see way too much effort to hit it hard with no plate discipline.
Very seldom do I see them working to get to a hitter’s pitch and swinging at too many pitcher’s pitches.

I can see why they haven’t bought in as they both had very successful 2024 seasons.

What do others see?

Way too early to look into it this deep. They are just struggling...

Look at the Braves lineup.

[82birds]

I think you are seeing exactly what I am seeing.

Me too.
The first thing I'd like to see happen is Winn changing his two-strike approach, which is no different than any other count, but should be.

[RamFan08NY]

Looks to me that they haven’t bought into Brant Brown’s hitting philosophy.
When I watch their ABs, I see way too much effort to hit it hard with no plate discipline.
Very seldom do I see them working to get to a hitter’s pitch and swinging at too many pitcher’s pitches.

I can see why they haven’t bought in as they both had very successful 2024 seasons.

What do others see?

Way too early to look into it this deep. They are just struggling...

Look at the Braves lineup.

It may be early, but Winn is young, and seems enamored with the thought of being a Mookie Bettes homerun hitting shortstop. I wish he'd rather watch video of Derek Jeter, and be the guy that goes with what the pitcher gives you. The HRs will come, but more importantly, the avg will show more.

[Wattage]

Looks to me that they haven’t bought into Brant Brown’s hitting philosophy.
When I watch their ABs, I see way too much effort to hit it hard with no plate discipline.
Very seldom do I see them working to get to a hitter’s pitch and swinging at too many pitcher’s pitches.

I can see why they haven’t bought in as they both had very successful 2024 seasons.

What do others see?

I mean, contreras is a vet who is meant to be a power hitter. He jsnt gonna reverse his whole seing and become a punch and judy high avg hitter now. He is meant to slug. He actually is usually patient and takes his walks. He js just slumping and pressing

Winn i dont like his aplroach as he doesnt need to be a slugger nor is meant to be. What he was last year is all that we want.

[scoutyjones2]

I see two guys badly slumping and trying to do much. Happens all the time. They'll get out of it.

Exactly.

[2ninr]

Looks to me that they haven’t bought into Brant Brown’s hitting philosophy.
When I watch their ABs, I see way too much effort to hit it hard with no plate discipline.
Very seldom do I see them working to get to a hitter’s pitch and swinging at too many pitcher’s pitches.

I can see why they haven’t bought in as they both had very successful 2024 seasons.

What do others see?

I mean, contreras is a vet who is meant to be a power hitter. He jsnt gonna reverse his whole seing and become a punch and judy high avg hitter now. He is meant to slug. He actually is usually patient and takes his walks. He js just slumping and pressing

Winn i dont like his aplroach as he doesnt need to be a slugger nor is meant to be. What he was last year is all that we want.

Philosophically I agree. But he changed his launch angle for a reason. Let's give it more than a week before we call it a failure.

[rockondlouie]

According to Bernie:

The swing-miss problem is undoubtedly tied to Winn’s change in launch angle in a quest for more home-run power. Last season his launch angle was 13 degrees; this year it’s 25 degrees. That’s within the so-called sweet spot range, but it isn’t working — at least not yet.— Last year, Winn was annoyingly effective at going the other way for hits. He had 46 opposite-field hits in 135 at-bats (.341). In the first four games of 2025, he’(poop) only one ball to the opposite field. His opposite-field rate has dropped from 28% to 14%.

Think someone got into Winn's head before today's game.
Read or heard something that inferred that he decided to quit trying to loft the ball and just level the swing out.
Sounds a lot like your analysis of what the issue was.

His two hits (one a sacrifice bunt that he beat out) got him off the snide.

Contreras even hit a line drive single to left.

Smart move, glad to see both break the curse and get on the hit board!

[TheJackBurton]

According to Bernie:

The swing-miss problem is undoubtedly tied to Winn’s change in launch angle in a quest for more home-run power. Last season his launch angle was 13 degrees; this year it’s 25 degrees. That’s within the so-called sweet spot range, but it isn’t working — at least not yet.— Last year, Winn was annoyingly effective at going the other way for hits. He had 46 opposite-field hits in 135 at-bats (.341). In the first four games of 2025, he’(poop) only one ball to the opposite field. His opposite-field rate has dropped from 28% to 14%.

I would say a common theme amongst players who get off to a terrible start to a season usually is the same and it always starts with "He's been trying to adjust his launch angle"