Is Montgomery A Better Coach Than Berube?

[Frank Underwood]

Both great coaches, no denying it. The Blues have been really lucky in that regard. But if I had to choose just one of these two, I take Montgomery. Chief has that kind of style that eventually goes stale and players eventually tune him out. We saw it here, at least to some degree. Monty seems like the kind of coach that could have a Jon Cooper kind of run with the Blues. Plus he seems perfect for the Blues with all the young talent. You could argue that things had started to go stale in Boston, but I don’t agree with that. I think he took the bullet for a poor GM and some of those stupid moves. If he had stayed there, I think he would have straightened it out and the Bruins would probably be in a playoff spot. Oh well, we aren’t giving him back!

[netboy65]

This is a fair question for a blog thread debate but my reaction is "what does it matter"? Where do you draw the line, Hitch? Joel? Bowman? Blues have had a lot of top-notch coaches, through good times and bad.

At the risk of jumping this thread off the tracks, your comment that the “Blues have had a lot of top-notch coaches” got me to thinking.

As a Blues fan since early 1968 (yeah, I’m old) here is my list of the best Blues coaches:

Scotty Bowman
Honorable mention to Al Arbour, but he wasn’t given a fair shake by Sid the Third
Red Berenson
Jacques Demers (yeah, his W-L record is only 0.500, but he coached during the dark days of almost losing the team, skipping the draft, and running on a shoestring. Demers always seemed to get way more from the team than you’d expect from their talent level)
Joel Quenneville
Craig Berube
Possibly Jim Montgomery (but we have to wait for more data)

In the next tier are:
Brian Sutter
Ken Hitchcock

The rest were forgettable.

Bob Plager did a great job with the Peoria farm club. But being an NHL head coach wasn’t his bag.

A couple quick comments. Yes on Demers, no WAY that ‘86 team should have taken the conf finals to 7 games.
Brian Sutter, loved him as a player, not at all a fan as a coach. He tried molding the team to his style of play as a player and it cost us Brind’Amour, not to mention the Butcher trade.
Hitch was a better coach than most gave him credit for.

Good point on Sutter. Hadn’t thought of it in that perspective. I may be looking back at his tenure with rose-colored glasses. He’s definitely a product of the old (Chuck) Norris Division tough guy style of play.

Plus he went on to coach Chicago. He’s officially dead to me!

[WeWentBlues0819]

Montgomery is probably the better coach, but the boys were ready to go through a brick wall for Chief in 2019. His speech before game 7 still gives me chills. "Lets [fork]ing go."

[Sophisticated Shoes]

Ask again in 3 years. Right now, Monty is working with less than what Berube was working with, however, Berube was able to summit the mountain, and plant the flag. Let's see what Montgomery does as the team matures, for the future looks bright for this group, with more on the way in the next year or two.

[bud white]

It's apples and oranges.

Chief had a largely veteran crew. Monty's is younger.

I think Monty has been better at communicating expectations with younger players. His experience in USHL and NCAA (Denver) is proof of that.

[MrPostman01]

Dare I say our Blues are looking more and more like those powerful Bruin teams of Monty. And Monty is far from completing his first year.

[DawgDad]

Ask again in 3 years. Right now, Monty is working with less than what Berube was working with, however, Berube was able to summit the mountain, and plant the flag. Let's see what Montgomery does as the team matures, for the future looks bright for this group, with more on the way in the next year or two.

Hmmm. I don't think we know that. It might be seen in retrospect that this forward group was pretty good. The scoring isn't as deep but it is solid across the top-6 and improving. The defense is solid top to bottom, maybe overall lacking the difference between a good defensive top-4 guy and Petro. In the end it will all be judged on accomplishments, this team might be that good now but miss the playoffs!

It's hard to envision this team making a deep run, but it was highly questionable whether the 2019 Blues would survive even Winnipeg not to mention Dallas coming withing an inch of eliminating them. One step at a time, just get in.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

Give kudos to Armey for jumping on Monty. ( Not too many kudos though because he will always have the resume blot of designating Mike Yeo as the coach in waiting )

[Galatians221jb1]

I think Berube could be compared to baseball’s Billy Martin. Intense, tough and demanding which results in short term success. Martin would win a World Series and then get fired a bit later. Screaming and intensity doesn’t work long term. I see Monty as steadier, getting players confidence in his strategies and can still light a fire. Berube seemed like his approach to offense was more forechecking. Montgomery seems to have more specificity in getting players to buy in to his theories. He has improved our transition game immensely and out time in the OZone has dramatically increased. We skate with more intensity and physicality. Not long ago we were not passing well, were gliding instead of skating intensely, and we are cycling the puck much better. Players like Holloway, Bolduc, Walker, Toropchenko and others are driving opponents nuts with their ferocious intensity.

[bud white]

I still believe that the change in this team happened over the 4Nations when they watched two of their leaders - Binnington and Parayko - take significant leadership roles for Team Canada. They saw both of these guys perform on the biggest stage. That was a HUGE boost of confidence.

The attitude is "f it" Let's go. Binner (and Hofer) have our back.

By the way, I'm not the only one who holds to this theory. Check out Spittin' Chiklets Episode 551.

And of course, they now have Jobu.

[Blues Dave]

Two different styles and I like both. Two different teams and I like both. Under Berube we had an aggressive team with some good goal scorers. With Monty we have a fast team, who does everything fast, and it appears that he wants everyone trying to score. This team doesn't give opponents time to move. The bad guys have to be thinking ahead constantly, because we're already gone.

Similarly, neither of our teams take or took any bull. With this team standing up for each other more. I believe there's more help behind the scenes (assist. coaches etc.) with Monty. I believe Berube liked to handle "more' stuff himself. There's more, and this is just a short take and I agree with a lot of you fella's. But it's close to how I feel generally.

[MikoTython]

Nice thread. Want to second some points made :

DA has been building team speed for at least the last 2-3 years, we saw the Blues able to score most consistently last year on the fast break. PP near league bottom. Inept in 5x5 in the O zone. Speed there, only marginally engaged in team scheme.

My main knock on Chief was the PP sucked, and remained sucky - he was saddled w/ some large roster holes, very uneven line production, and the frustration eventually drove him out. Also, year one of retool.

So, ok, Monty inherited, as we now see, a 5-6 MAJOR player improvement over last year, got the time/space to implement his plan (a mini training camp) over the 4N break. What he's done - as noted, integrated the D in the attack, vicious checking in both zones, much more N-S break-outs, high-low cycling in the O-zone, vastly improved fluid creative puck control & edge-work, jamming the low-slot to create screens, high-slot shooting, tipping/holing rebounds. PP over the season, including our long stint in .500 land, is now 17th in the league. This team has gone from a puck watcher to a puck hogger. The talent got here, Monty has it all the way in-gear.

Comparing the two, Monty seems more creative, system-driven (systems may be taught). Getting buy-in and production out of young players esp. is the hallmark of a great coach (Coach Q had that skill, too). At any rate, this is the best Blues team RIGHT NOW, I've ever seen.

Add to that - the present drive is a result of DA & Co NOT losing confidence in the roster they'd put together. Standing pat now looks brilliant.

[JB2011]

Both great coaches, no denying it. The Blues have been really lucky in that regard. But if I had to choose just one of these two, I take Montgomery. Chief has that kind of style that eventually goes stale and players eventually tune him out. We saw it here, at least to some degree. Monty seems like the kind of coach that could have a Jon Cooper kind of run with the Blues. Plus he seems perfect for the Blues with all the young talent. You could argue that things had started to go stale in Boston, but I don’t agree with that. I think he took the bullet for a poor GM and some of those stupid moves. If he had stayed there, I think he would have straightened it out and the Bruins would probably be in a playoff spot. Oh well, we aren’t giving him back!

I was (upset) to say the least when Berube was fired. I think that he's a great coach and I didn't see it coming when he was fired.

This said, I'm ecstatic that we now have Montgomery. I'll be the first to admit that he's done an absolutely incredible job and I didn't realize that he was/is this good. I also agree with your sentiment that he'll be here for a while. It just seems like a great fit and it's abundantly apparent it's what our front office wanted.

I'm thankful that out of the the teams here in STL, I'm very thankful that the Blues have not only a great front office, but great ownership as well. This can't be said about The Cardinals.

[Sunny's Teeth]

Two of the best coaches the Blues have had in the past few decades. Probably since Coach Q.

I know people will burn me at the steak for not saying Hitch was a good coach - sorry - I never liked Hitch.
Andy Murray, Davis Payne... a bunch of other forgettable coaches.

Berube was the right guy at the right time for the right team.

Montgomery is doing the same in performing sorcery in raising the dead. New voices sometimes do better than old "same ol same ol" which is why the NHL has a lot of turnover in coaches I think. Is one better than the other? I have no idea. Berube and Monty are two of my favorite NHL coaches though. I do think Monty should get some Jack Adams consideration this year too.

Burn me at the steak made me happy ...

[imyourhuckleberry]

Different, certainly.
Better, possibly. Time will tell.

He needs a Cup before he can really make an argument. Let's hope he gets his Cup as the head coach of the Blues.

[Sophisticated Shoes]

Ask again in 3 years. Right now, Monty is working with less than what Berube was working with, however, Berube was able to summit the mountain, and plant the flag. Let's see what Montgomery does as the team matures, for the future looks bright for this group, with more on the way in the next year or two.

Hmmm. I don't think we know that. It might be seen in retrospect that this forward group was pretty good. The scoring isn't as deep but it is solid across the top-6 and improving. The defense is solid top to bottom, maybe overall lacking the difference between a good defensive top-4 guy and Petro. In the end it will all be judged on accomplishments, this team might be that good now but miss the playoffs!

It's hard to envision this team making a deep run, but it was highly questionable whether the 2019 Blues would survive even Winnipeg not to mention Dallas coming withing an inch of eliminating them. One step at a time, just get in.

Of course we don't know, nobody knows, and hopefully this team far exceeds 2019's team, but as of today, does this team have a bonafide #2 center (yes DD is coming)? I don't think so. 19's team had ROR, Schenn, & Bozak down the middle, and without going further, I'd say 2019's team was certainly built to go far in the playoffs, prior to the start of the season, even though it took the team awhile to gel with newcomers (Peron, ROR, Bozak, Maroon, Thomas, & later in season w/ Binnington). We can see parallels between the two teams, an we know we have more coming in the pipeline, as well as salary cap space to supplement where needed, but 19's team was expected to get to the playoffs and compete for a cup, prior to the season. Today's team is red hot, but was considered a bubble team prior to the season, and still isn't a lock to make the playoffs.
Sure in retrospect, this team may accomplish more, I hope they do, which is why I suggested asking the question again in 3 years.