What is the attraction to Siani?

[Melville]

The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani

No real attraction to Siani but if he or Scott is not in center a chain reaction of weakened defense happens. Walker has more pressure in RF. Gorman plays 2B instead of Donovan. I guess it depends on one's offense vs defense preference.

Exactly right.
If Siani or Scott is not in CF, all 3 outfield spots are appreciably worse defensively.
You understand this game well enough to know that the sum being greater than the parts is the correct objective when considering lineup construction.
Not everyone gets that.

[kscardsfan]

Most Card fans have forgotten what a great CF looks like. They thought Bader was it. Wasn't a great outfielder. Saw some great catches. But saw him too often turn and run back to get the ball that he dove and wiffed on. But hey he had made sportscenter for the good ones. Had speed. Wasn't a base stealer. Had to be on base to steal. Couldn't hit a lick. Now they drool over Siani. Defense seems to be all that they think you need.. How many years since we had a bonafide major league outfield? 2013.... 2013. Twelve years of a rebuild out there where you need production. Wasted years.

Couldn't hit a lick?

The three seasons Bader played at least 100 games with the Cardinals, he was an above average bat - 6, 14, and 14% above league average by OPS+ and 7, 14 and 8% above average by wRC+. While that isn't an all-star, it isn't "couldn't hit a lick" either.

And literally no one is drooling over Siani. On the other hand, plenty of people in this very thread(and many others) have called him a 5th OF or nothing more than a defensive replacement for late innings.

He was not then and will never be a good hitter. He's not a base stealer. he doesn't hit for much power. He is a .245 hitter that plays at times great defense and at times makes stupid decisions trying for that highlight reel. Can't lay off down and away. But he is an above average hitter. Seeing as how your stats tell you he is an above avg hitter, why isn't he a starter somewhere? There is a reason he has played for 4 teams in 4 years. He can't hit a lick. Hint for you, neither can Siani. Stick to your stats that tell you he is an above average stats. I will stick to my eyes and pull for the Cards to go get some MLB caliber outfielders someday. Been since 2013.

[kscardsfan]

Most Card fans have forgotten what a great CF looks like. They thought Bader was it. Wasn't a great outfielder. Saw some great catches. But saw him too often turn and run back to get the ball that he dove and wiffed on. But hey he had made sportscenter for the good ones. Had speed. Wasn't a base stealer. Had to be on base to steal. Couldn't hit a lick. Now they drool over Siani. Defense seems to be all that they think you need.. How many years since we had a bonafide major league outfield? 2013.... 2013. Twelve years of a rebuild out there where you need production. Wasted years.

Don't all baseball players need to be on base to steal?

It sure does help. Haven't seen anyone steal first yet.

[Youboughtit]

The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani

Neither are Major League caliber players. Neither should start unless they earn a job. This team has no centerfielder who is close who can hit.

By default we are stuck with Noot playing center out of position or one of these two.

Noot + Burly offense > Noot + Siani/Scott Defense. Especially on a team that needs offense. The Dodgers could afford to play a Defenseive first CF. Not this roster.

IF they're not going to score much, they may want to limit what the other team scores.
Just the other view. Might help get more innings out of your own pitching staff.

Burly has to win his DH spot. If he does fine, the production winner plays. As should always be the case.

OK so let’s say he wins the DH spot which shouldn’t be hard. Then what? Are you sitting Gorman (the uniKorn)

[renostl]

The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani

Neither are Major League caliber players. Neither should start unless they earn a job. This team has no centerfielder who is close who can hit.

By default we are stuck with Noot playing center out of position or one of these two.

Noot + Burly offense > Noot + Siani/Scott Defense. Especially on a team that needs offense. The Dodgers could afford to play a Defenseive first CF. Not this roster.

IF they're not going to score much, they may want to limit what the other team scores.
Just the other view. Might help get more innings out of your own pitching staff.

Burly has to win his DH spot. If he does fine, the production winner plays. As should always be the case.

OK so let’s say he wins the DH spot which shouldn’t be hard. Then what? Are you sitting Gorman (the uniKorn)

Gorman has to not be bad.
Same as Walker in that regard.
I still see Burleson as a high floor guy IF the others fail.
Both would benefit from another position opening up
say through injury or trade.

not in favor of either VS or Siani duplicating 2024, they need more.

[Chubbs0910]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

The team played Siani a lot because - who else was there? I don't mean to demean him as EVERY player that makes the majors is a seriously talented athlete in some way. In the case of Siani:

Elite defense in CF
Elite speed good base running
Not ML level hitter

His minor league career has him with a 698 OPS in the minors. If he could replicate that in the majors he would be a fine CFer. Problem is he is a 570 OPS hitter in the majors to date. And the so called second half improvements I don't see. His splits don't indicate that.

At 24 MAYBE he can hit better. But no playoff team would bet on that.

Victor Scott has shown slightly more potential with a 724 OPS in the minors and seemed to come on in 2023. Then looked over-matched in STL and AAA in 2024. Same age as Siani so maybe there is more but if either is to become the next CFer in STL they will have to up their contact rates and get on base more consistently. Which I'm sure they know.

[Wattage]

The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani

Burelson must play. He’s likely the teams best hitter. Not enough offense without him. Build the roster around whomever the best hitters are.

1. Defense is a thing
2. Based on what? Burleson isnt even close to contreras as a hitter and only had the teams 5th highest ops behind herrera donovan and nootbaar. And burleson faded the 2nd half with a .626 ops. He was offensively comparable to winn and arenado, only slightly better but they play way more defense, as do donovan and nootbaar. Im not saying we need more defense first players but for touting the bat, burleson hasnt shown a bat which ia a problem since he offers little else.

[Wattage]

Are people really fussing about the first spring training game lineup as if that dictates or is indicative of what the mlb roster or lineup will be. No name minor leaguers get spring reps all the time. Everyone will get reos. Dont read anything into early spring lineups anyways

[renostl]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

Horrible bat, better than VS in 2024.
They can't be that level bad and get starters time nor
should both be on the roster it that's who they are in 2025.

[Wattage]

Most Card fans have forgotten what a great CF looks like. They thought Bader was it. Wasn't a great outfielder. Saw some great catches. But saw him too often turn and run back to get the ball that he dove and wiffed on. But hey he had made sportscenter for the good ones. Had speed. Wasn't a base stealer. Had to be on base to steal. Couldn't hit a lick. Now they drool over Siani. Defense seems to be all that they think you need.. How many years since we had a bonafide major league outfield? 2013.... 2013. Twelve years of a rebuild out there where you need production. Wasted years.

Couldn't hit a lick?

The three seasons Bader played at least 100 games with the Cardinals, he was an above average bat - 6, 14, and 14% above league average by OPS+ and 7, 14 and 8% above average by wRC+. While that isn't an all-star, it isn't "couldn't hit a lick" either.

And literally no one is drooling over Siani. On the other hand, plenty of people in this very thread(and many others) have called him a 5th OF or nothing more than a defensive replacement for late innings.

He was not then and will never be a good hitter. He's not a base stealer. he doesn't hit for much power. He is a .245 hitter that plays at times great defense and at times makes stupid decisions trying for that highlight reel. Can't lay off down and away. But he is an above average hitter. Seeing as how your stats tell you he is an above avg hitter, why isn't he a starter somewhere? There is a reason he has played for 4 teams in 4 years. He can't hit a lick. Hint for you, neither can Siani. Stick to your stats that tell you he is an above average stats. I will stick to my eyes and pull for the Cards to go get some MLB caliber outfielders someday. Been since 2013.

He said with the cardinals. Baders numbers have dropped off since 2022. It doesnt chabge the fct that with the cardinals he had somenabove average seasons so describing not hit worth a lick with us isnt accurate. Bader was around leavue average in his entirety with the cardinals with a few above avg seasons being cancelled put with a couple terrible seasons.

Also beaides batting avg not being the only stat, i think many people dont realize that the league average is actually only .243 the past season and hasnt reched .250 since 2019. People bemoan not having certain numbers without looking and realizing very few in the league put up the numbers they are expecting

Bader had a .729 ops with the cardinals. Siani had a .570 last year. The 2 arent comparable.

For context, burleson had a .735 ops last year and doesnt come close to giving baders defense. Not that burleson is a decent player cuz hes not, or that bader is still a comparable hitter because hes clearly dropped off after injuries.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

Horrible bat, better than VS in 2024.
They can't be that level bad and get starters time nor
should both be on the roster it that's who they are in 2025.

Well he would be OK on a team flanked by Judge and Soto and a solid hitting infield. Errr, that doesn't sound much like STL.

[Wattage]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

Horrible bat, better than VS in 2024.
They can't be that level bad and get starters time nor
should both be on the roster it that's who they are in 2025.

This year he is a place holder until we think victor scott is ready cuz we wrent really trying to win. Last year considering we were still in playoff race most the year, its embarrassing we kept siani as starter as long as we did instead of making a move.

[Chubbs0910]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

Horrible bat, better than VS in 2024.
They can't be that level bad and get starters time nor
should both be on the roster it that's who they are in 2025.

This year he is a place holder until we think victor scott is ready cuz we wrent really trying to win. Last year considering we were still in playoff race most the year, its embarrassing we kept siani as starter as long as we did instead of making a move.

They did make a move.. they traded away a CF who won the NLCS MVP en route to winning the world series.

They literally had the solution to their biggest problem and traded him away for a cheap 2025 SP.

[smilinjoefission]

The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani

Burelson must play. He’s likely the teams best hitter. Not enough offense without him. Build the roster around whomever the best hitters are.

If we go into this season still on the fence about Burleson playing every day the season is already lost. Siani is a defensive replacement/pinch runner, nothing more. Scott is part of the future plan, not Siani, but he's not MLB ready

[renostl]

Among qualified CF's last year Leody Tavaras came in last at .641 OPS.

Siani = .570


It's a joke.

Horrible bat, better than VS in 2024.
They can't be that level bad and get starters time nor
should both be on the roster it that's who they are in 2025.

This year he is a place holder until we think victor scott is ready cuz we wrent really trying to win. Last year considering we were still in playoff race most the year, its embarrassing we kept siani as starter as long as we did instead of making a move.

They did make a move.. they traded away a CF who won the NLCS MVP en route to winning the world series.

They literally had the solution to their biggest problem and traded him away for a cheap 2025 SP.

the motivation of that trade was twofold.

they did not want to be anywhere near paying TE $10 million to $12 million/year. I disagree with that.
they also probably have some reservation with serious wrist injuries and their futures. I can't disagree with that
$10-$12 million in dead money hurts the Cards way more than LAD.