CT Fantasy Baseball - Interested?

[mattmitchl44]

No, but a good potion of your arguments have relied upon a “this is how we think now”-type philosophy.

Yes, because baseball has evolved to value what we know should be valued - which is getting on base however you can do so. Why is getting onboard with that somehow "bad"?

You can easily play the "group think" card in reverse - the "group think" was happening for however many decades people went along thinking that the ability to take a walk wasn't very valuable, until someone had the sense to put it into a context (e.g., linear weights) of how close walks are in value to singles.

As of now, we aren’t. I’ve suggested a variety of ways to preserve the existing categories to accomplish essentially the same thing you’re after… yet for some reason, you have rejected them all. At this point I have to conclude that some part of your motive is that batting average simply makes you feel icky. Maybe yucky and icky.

I've declined your suggestions because I think they are unnecessarily complicated. Occam's Razor - the simplest solution is almost always correct.

Wholesale adding more categories (like hits, BB, XBH, etc.) to go to 7x7 or whatever just to preserve "AVG" as a category is not the simplest approach. You don't think going to 7x7, or whatever, is a bigger break from "tradition" than just swapping OBP for AVG?

Again - my proposal to simply substitute OBP for AVG takes nothing away, AVG is still right there embedded within OBP, it just adds walks (and HBP) into AVG to get OBP.

We’ll put it to a vote when the league is formed again, next year.

You don’t strike me as the type to shy away from complexity, so I’m sticking with my icky/yucky theory.

I recognize the validity of the point AOF made - that adding unnecessary complexity would maybe make the game more unapproachable for some league members.

Look at it another way. If you expand it to 7x7 just to keep AVG, AVG is now just one of 14 categories (7.1% of the total points) instead of one of 12 categories (8.3% of the total points), so you've reduced the importance of AVG by ~14-15% (7.1/8.3 = 0.855). And you have to come up with some valid, really worthwhile pitching category that you want to add to keep the balance (don't know what that would be exactly).

Across MLB, AVG (.243 ML average) is about 78% of OBP (.312 ML average), so you could say the simple OBP for AVG swap lessens the importance of AVG by, maybe, 22%. Which is not a big difference from how much you are "watering down" AVG anyway by going from 1 of 12 to 1 of 14 categories.

That would barely value a single more than a walk. You can claim that a single would “count” three times, but it’s only 1/4 of max total slugging.

Yes, but because the single DOES uniquely count toward SLG (and walks do not), that is what would bring singles more in line with the understood value (linear weights) that they are only about ~40% more valuable than walks.

[Quincy Varnish]

.

[Dazepster]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I don't gather many folks that post here play fantasy baseball but wanted to get a feeler out for a league... Quincy and I have been talking about putting one together.

I know it's not for everyone. I've played for about 25 years and have two long-standing leagues running. We'd be looking probably for a 10-12 teamer pretty standard roto format through Yahoo.

If you're not interested in the league but want to chat fantasy strategy / keepers / draft prep, have at it.

Congrats. On the Bulldog HOF - a criteria is a double platinum thread- 1000 responses.

500 is platinum; 100 is Gold.

You’ve met a very hard objective towards induction. Bravo.

[An Old Friend]

Alright, getting ready to board, gonna be a 3 day bender. See y’all soon

Why didn’t you mention you were going to Ballpark Village?

Solid, but 'twas not me!

Solid weekend out in Denver, Avalanche game Saturday night, Sunday Funday on the town, Monday Night Football at Mile High, flew back today. Back to reality.

[Quincy Varnish]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

[Quincy Varnish]

Alright, getting ready to board, gonna be a 3 day bender. See y’all soon

Why didn’t you mention you were going to Ballpark Village?

Solid, but 'twas not me!

Solid weekend out in Denver, Avalanche game Saturday night, Sunday Funday on the town, Monday Night Football at Mile High, flew back today. Back to reality.

If it really was a three day bender, at high altitudes… congrats if you did not fall down.

[Dazepster]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

[Quincy Varnish]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

If CGs were a category, it’s more likely that it was a H2H league.

Why are you opposed to the QS? I think it’s a fine addition.

[An Old Friend]

Alright, getting ready to board, gonna be a 3 day bender. See y’all soon

Why didn’t you mention you were going to Ballpark Village?

Solid, but 'twas not me!

Solid weekend out in Denver, Avalanche game Saturday night, Sunday Funday on the town, Monday Night Football at Mile High, flew back today. Back to reality.

If it really was a three day bender, at high altitudes… congrats if you did not fall down.

Saturday night got a little hairy but was able to recover.

Football game was a lot of fun and a wild game to watch.

[Dazepster]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

If CGs were a category, it’s more likely that it was a H2H league.

Why are you opposed to the QS? I think it’s a fine addition.

We are seeing less and less of them as Managers are quick to go to the pen and turn things over to a parade of relievers.

[Quincy Varnish]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

If CGs were a category, it’s more likely that it was a H2H league.

Why are you opposed to the QS? I think it’s a fine addition.

We are seeing less and less of them as Managers are quick to go to the pen and turn things over to a parade of relievers.

That doesn’t seem like a reason to eliminate it. There were 1756 Quality Starts in the majors this year… over 300 more than there were Wins by starting pitchers.

[Dazepster]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

If CGs were a category, it’s more likely that it was a H2H league.

Why are you opposed to the QS? I think it’s a fine addition.

We are seeing less and less of them as Managers are quick to go to the pen and turn things over to a parade of relievers.

That doesn’t seem like a reason to eliminate it. There were 1756 Quality Starts in the majors this year… over 300 more than there were Wins by starting pitchers.

Maybe we should toss em both. Not a lot of either going on apparently.

[Quincy Varnish]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

Hmmm.

Yeah, always had K's.

Not sure now, which League had QS's and what that may have replaced.

Was there 6 by 6 in Vogue at some point. Offense would have then had OBP added to Avg to give that 6 categories.

Present day or our League. Avg or OBP doesn't really matter to me 1 way or the other.

Now that I am thinking about it, also had Complete Games as a scoring category. 20 years ago. Lol

QS needs to go.

If CGs were a category, it’s more likely that it was a H2H league.

Why are you opposed to the QS? I think it’s a fine addition.

We are seeing less and less of them as Managers are quick to go to the pen and turn things over to a parade of relievers.

That doesn’t seem like a reason to eliminate it. There were 1756 Quality Starts in the majors this year… over 300 more than there were Wins by starting pitchers.

Maybe we should toss em both. Not a lot of either going on apparently.

Did you realize QS was your best category this year?

[mattmitchl44]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

As noted previously, I agree with you that "holds" shouldn't be its own category or added to "saves" on a 1-for-1 basis. Ideally, we'd be able to have a category something like "0.5 * Holds + Saves" to count both together. But if we can't that makes it tricky.

"SB - CS" would also make to sense to me as a more completely category than SB alone.

[Quincy Varnish]

5 By 5 is ideal. Do not see a compelling reason to move to a 7 By 7.

My initial formats into Fantasy BB had the following Categories:

Avg/Runs/HR'S/RBI's and Stolen Bases.

Wins/QS/Saves/ERA/WHIP

After several years, Avg was replaced by OBP and SB was adjusted to SB less CS. On the Pitching side Holds replaced QS as QS began to diminish and Wins and Saves were changed to Net WIns and Net Saves.

Avg, OBP, OPS? Whateva, pick one, easy enough to adjust.

I would suggest consideration being given to Holds replacing QS and Netting Wins and Losses as well as Netting Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing.

In addition, will Keepers be up for discussion ahead of the 2nd season. With 15 teams I can't see having more than 1 but might be open to 1.

Highly unusual league you were in, if it did not count Ks but scored QS.

I’m not a fan of using Holds, particularly when there isn’t an available method that values them less than a Save.

As noted previously, I agree with you that "holds" shouldn't be its own category or added to "saves" on a 1-for-1 basis. Ideally, we'd be able to have a category something like "0.5 * Holds + Saves" to count both together. But if we can't that makes it tricky.

"SB - CS" would also make to sense to me as a more completely category than SB alone.

There isn’t a “0.5 * Holds + Saves” category in Yahoo, or AFAIK anywhere. I do like that idea, though.

SB - CS is something to consider. The thought of a lumbering DH that keeps getting picked off costing you standing in the category does bother me, though. There’s also a SB% category, but it doesn’t make sense unless it’s accompanied by a cumulative stat category… and that’s just too much focus on SBs.