Surprising QO

[Quincy Varnish]

The Reds have a TON of talent and look primed to make a go at it next year. They lost players to injury throughout the season. Despite their losing record, they scored more runs and allowed fewer runs that the Cardinals.
When they let guys like Gray walk, they were punting until now.
I'd trade rosters with the Reds today.

Absolutely. Would trade anyone on this team for Elly and as you said flip rosters.

Their pitching is real.

[An Old Friend]

Reds offer Nick Martinez a QO, which is $21.05 million.

42 G/16 starts
3.10 ERA
110 IP

Pretty surprising for a guy like him and coming from the same Reds team that gave away Gray a few years ago because of money IMO. But I guess they want to keep him around.

By doing so, they killed his free agent value, so now they have leverage to sign him to 3 years at say $40 mil.

Or, he can take the deal and have a one-year contract.

Opti

If the contract is $40M/3, I see no reason not to accept half the money for 1-year

I’m the opposite. That’s too big of a bet / risk to pass up double the guarantee for a 34 year old pitcher.

[An Old Friend]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

No. Martinez is coming off a career year, and it’s time for him to cash it in. Doubtful he could approach $20M AAV, but he could at least double that total value w/ a multi-year deal.

Pivetta is in a sweet spot because of his age. He should be seeking a 4-5 year deal, right now.

[Futuregm2]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

[An Old Friend]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

No. Martinez is coming off a career year, and it’s time for him to cash it in. Doubtful he could approach $20M AAV, but he could at least double that total value w/ a multi-year deal.

Pivetta is in a sweet spot because of his age. He should be seeking a 4-5 year deal, right now.

Pivetta is definitely an analytic / spin rate stud, results haven’t quite matched but someone would make that bet.

I don’t see Martinez having a robust market with comp hanging over his head, that’s all. He’d make sense for teams like Baltimore or Atlanta, though, and they can (bleep) away draft picks right now.

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

He’s not a project. Are you saying nobody will sign him?

[rockondlouie]

Reds offer Nick Martinez a QO, which is $21.05 million.

42 G/16 starts
3.10 ERA
110 IP

Pretty surprising for a guy like him and coming from the same Reds team that gave away Gray a few years ago because of money IMO. But I guess they want to keep him around.

Nick should run as fast as he can to sign that QO!

[Futuregm2]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

He’s not a project. Are you saying nobody will sign him?

I’m saying QO makes him less appealing to teams when they can sign someone else who doesn’t have a QO attached.

I say project because the stuff hasn’t matched the results.

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

He’s not a project. Are you saying nobody will sign him?

I’m saying QO makes him less appealing to teams when they can sign someone else who doesn’t have a QO attached.

I say project because the stuff hasn’t matched the results.

I agree with all that, but I don’t think the QO will prevent him from getting a very attractive contract. We’ll see. He might be able to grab something in the ballpark of Eovaldi’s last deal w/ the Red Sox, which I believe was 4@68.

[Futuregm2]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

He’s not a project. Are you saying nobody will sign him?

I’m saying QO makes him less appealing to teams when they can sign someone else who doesn’t have a QO attached.

I say project because the stuff hasn’t matched the results.

I agree with all that, but I don’t think the QO will prevent him from getting a very attractive contract. We’ll see. He might be able to grab something in the ballpark of Eovaldi’s last deal w/ the Red Sox, which I believe was 4@68.

Maybe, we’ll see. Eovaldi was younger, had better results, and a better FIP. Eovaldi is someone that is a FA as well and in the same range as Pivetta likely and won’t have a QO. My guess is Pivetta takes the QO, but who knows.

[Cool Papa Con]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

Just saying, Lance Lynn & Kyle Gibson got paid $12-13M a season in their late 30’s…

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

Ehh, I wouldn’t go that far. I like him but he’s just a solid pitcher. He’s never had an ERA under 4, never had more than 10 wins, went 6-12 this year, his FIP is usually 4+, gives up too many HRs. Plus who would give up draft money for Pivetta? Or a Nick Martinez?

Pivetta has wicked nasty stuff, seriously. He’s better than solid. He’ll do well in FA, and should certainly be hunting for something better than a one year guarantee.

Martinez? Different level, but he could still manage a good 2-3 year deal that’s more appealing than the QO. His versatility will be valued by contenders… more so with the reigning champs setting a new standard with their bullpen. That said, he could still take the sure thing.

Pivetta isn’t taking the QO, so we’ll see who signs him.

Sure, but at some point you have to produce results even with “wicked stuff”. He’ll be 32 years old and has a career ERA of 4.76 and FIP of 4.36. Not to mention record of 56-71. Who will give up draft pick money for what amounts to a 32 year old project?

He’s not a project. Are you saying nobody will sign him?

I’m saying QO makes him less appealing to teams when they can sign someone else who doesn’t have a QO attached.

I say project because the stuff hasn’t matched the results.

I agree with all that, but I don’t think the QO will prevent him from getting a very attractive contract. We’ll see. He might be able to grab something in the ballpark of Eovaldi’s last deal w/ the Red Sox, which I believe was 4@68.

Maybe, we’ll see. Eovaldi was younger, had better results, and a better FIP. Eovaldi is someone that is a FA as well and in the same range as Pivetta likely and won’t have a QO. My guess is Pivetta takes the QO, but who knows.

It would be stupid to take it. Even if he prices himself out of the market and ends up without a long term deal, he’s getting that $21M about anywhere he wants. The AL East and Fenway Park are not ideal places for what would essentially amount to a pillow contract.

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe, we’ll see. Eovaldi was younger, had better results, and a better FIP. Eovaldi is someone that is a FA as well and in the same range as Pivetta likely and won’t have a QO. My guess is Pivetta takes the QO, but who knows.

3 seasons prior to FA
Eovaldi - 4.27 ERA, 7.4 K/9
Pivetta - 4.27 ERA, 10.2 K/9

[An Old Friend]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

Just saying, Lance Lynn & Kyle Gibson got paid $12-13M a season in their late 30’s…

I’m struggling to see the relevancy to this discussion.

[Quincy Varnish]

Maybe a more surprising one is the Red Sox offering a QO to Nick Pivetta, but they did not issue one to Tyler O’Neill.

Pivetta’s an underrated stud. Both he and Martinez are poised for multi-year deals, so it does make sense to offer them QOs. IMO it’s higher risk to give TO a QO, when there’s a strong chance he could accept and make $20+M, playing 60 games.

I’m probably just ignorant but I think both of them should accept.

Just saying, Lance Lynn & Kyle Gibson got paid $12-13M a season in their late 30’s…

I’m struggling to see the relevancy to this discussion.

His point (I think) is Lynn/Gibson were old bums compared to Pivetta/Martinez. The latter could have multi-year opportunities to explore.

Yes, they could both make themselves more marketable betting on themselves… but why should they assume that risk?