CT Fantasy Baseball - Interested?

[Quincy Varnish]

Quincy is doing a great job but I'm not worried about him, per se.

[mattmitchl44]

FWIW - if you didn't know already, you can make a waiver claim for someone who is IL eligible (e.g., Brendan Rodgers) dropping someone who is already on your IL (e.g., Jorge Polanco) and it will go through.

I wasn't sure if the person you were picking up had to first make a stop on your active roster (so you'd first have to drop an active roster player) before you could move them to your IL.

[Quincy Varnish]

FWIW - if you didn't know already, you can make a waiver claim for someone who is IL eligible (e.g., Brendan Rodgers) dropping someone who is already on your IL (e.g., Jorge Polanco) and it will go through.

I wasn't sure if the person you were picking up had to first make a stop on your active roster (so you'd first have to drop an active roster player) before you could move them to your IL.

You added a couple of players directly to the IL before the season started, I believe. It’s a custom setting. In standard leagues, you do need an available active roster spot to add an IL player.

Anyway… thought it would be good to set an example of what I consider a fair return for high-end talent. Alvarez incoming.

[An Old Friend]

Quincy is doing a great job but I'm not worried about him, per se.

Yordan is a nice get.

[Quincy Varnish]

Quincy is doing a great job but I'm not worried about him, per se.

Yordan is a nice get.

Just have to hope he doesn’t stub a toe. Plus if Austin Riley returns to being Austin Riley… it’s going to hurt.

Thankfully, it wasn’t necessary to offer anything I picked up from waivers in the last week or so. Holding them back for Zack Wheeler.

[mattmitchl44]

FWIW - if you didn't know already, you can make a waiver claim for someone who is IL eligible (e.g., Brendan Rodgers) dropping someone who is already on your IL (e.g., Jorge Polanco) and it will go through.

I wasn't sure if the person you were picking up had to first make a stop on your active roster (so you'd first have to drop an active roster player) before you could move them to your IL.

You added a couple of players directly to the IL before the season started, I believe. It’s a custom setting. In standard leagues, you do need an available active roster spot to add an IL player.

Anyway… thought it would be good to set an example of what I consider a fair return for high-end talent. Alvarez incoming.

I did pick up a couple of IL guys pre-season, but I couldn't recall the exactly mechanics that I went through to do it.

[Barking Lion]

Can you veto a trade and then withdraw your veto later is an explanation is given?

Since we haven’t heard from either party - what might you regard a sufficient ‘explanation’?

I think it would be BL explaining whether they are aware of the regression predictions and if they think the players they are getting are going to keep producing at current levels nonetheless.

Barking Lion is lagging in 3 pitching categories - Wins, Strikeouts, and Quality Starts. He's also pacing to finish about 100 innings under the innings cap. Crochet has obviously been outstanding and close to Wheeler's equal. I get certainty in Wheeler and offload some pitching surplus and he gets an ace with another strong performing starter in Parker. Parker has made 10 starts and hasn't given up more than 3 earned runs in any of them. Both Crochet and Parker have far exceeded Fantasy Pros preseason projections.

Josh Smith's preseason projection / prediction was this: .231 AVG, .684 OPS, 3 HR, 14 RBI, 17 Runs, 2 SB
Josh Smith actual statistics through 63 games are these: .287 AVG, .810 OPS, 4 HR, 24 RBI, 32 Runs, 4 SB

Why would you lean so far into Fantasy Pros rest of season projections when they've whiffed so badly on these players?

I'll give you that his batted ball metrics don't necessarily support the slash line, but he hit like this at every level in the minors. He has plus plate discipline & plus bat to ball skills. He qualifies at 3 positions and represents a nice upgrade from who Barking Lion has been using there.

BL is in good shape in saves so he was comfortable giving up a closer which fills a need for me. He also moves towards closing his innings gap and raises his floor on wins / strikeouts / quality starts.

I offered his choice of Crochet or Ragans and a better infield bat and said explicitly that I was trying to trade up for a SP and fill my saves gap.

Note from An Old Friend
Offering Crochet here but could swap out for Ragans (if you prefer one over the other). Crochet is more highly rated, today. You fill the need for an infield bat and keep Bohm at 1st, I trade up on a SP and get a closer to fix my saves gap. Let me know.

Sorry to be so late in addressing this discussion. I don't spend a lot fo time on fantasy projection sites because it has burned me in the past.

But the deal comes down to this- I am stagnating. I trail in multiple categories and lack of pop is killing me. Josh Smith has not been incredible this season, but his power is what I need. Wheeler is a huge stud but I trust Crochet will pick up some of that and I have always been able to structure my pitching to not totally fall out of the saves category. It is a strategic move with risk, but I am not afraid of it. I have turned down deals that I felt were far worse and been criticized for it.

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

[Quincy Varnish]

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

[An Old Friend]

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

This is petty.

[Quincy Varnish]

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

[An Old Friend]

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

I’m saying it’s petty that y’all vetoed it.

[Quincy Varnish]

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

I’m saying it’s petty that y’all vetoed it.

Are you entirely familiar with the thought processes of those who chose to veto it? Seems that would be required to make such a judgement.

[An Old Friend]

The trade was vetoed by the league.

IMO if you had made it known that Wheeler was actually available, the offers you might have received would have been significantly better than AOF’s offer. This trade was overwhelmingly in his favor, and I see no other way to add it up.

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

I’m saying it’s petty that y’all vetoed it.

Are you entirely familiar with the thought processes of those who chose to veto it? Seems that would be required to make such a judgement.

The thought process seems to be that there was a dislike that the first place team dealt from a position of strength to shore up other areas. Collectively the league felt that made me more formidable and so decided they didn’t want to let it happen.

Heck, you even told me I needed to make some trades… then when I do, it gets voted against because <gasp> I may have made a smart deal.

Crochet has been a beast. I saw someone say Wheeler might be the best pitcher in baseball.

bWAR
Crochet - 2.7
Wheeler - 2.2

fWAR
Crochet - 2.3
Wheeler - 2.2

FIP
Crochet - 2.77
Wheeler - 2.94

xERA
Crochet - 2.31
Wheeler - 2.77

K/9
Crochet - 12.25
Wheeler - 10.15

But the trade made y’all uncomfortable thinking it might make me tougher to beat, so the veto is really going against the spirit of competition.

[Quincy Varnish]

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

I’m saying it’s petty that y’all vetoed it.

Are you entirely familiar with the thought processes of those who chose to veto it? Seems that would be required to make such a judgement.

The thought process seems to be that there was a dislike that the first place team dealt from a position of strength to shore up other areas. Collectively the league felt that made me more formidable and so decided they didn’t want to let it happen.

Heck, you even told me I needed to make some trades… then when I do, it gets voted against because <gasp> I may have made a smart deal.

Crochet has been a beast. I saw someone say Wheeler might be the best pitcher in baseball.

bWAR
Crochet - 2.7
Wheeler - 2.2

fWAR
Crochet - 2.3
Wheeler - 2.2

FIP
Crochet - 2.77
Wheeler - 2.94

xERA
Crochet - 2.31
Wheeler - 2.77

K/9
Crochet - 12.25
Wheeler - 10.15

But the trade made y’all uncomfortable thinking it might make me tougher to beat, so the veto is really going against the spirit of competition.

So everyone that voted against the trade was only doing it to keep you down? Are you sure that’s it?

I’ve been in this situation before. To get a trade through after it was vetoed - my response was to make a sound defense of the trade, and simply offer the trade again. That works.

Sure, it definitely was a ‘smart’ trade for you. Doesn’t seem too smart to be attacking the five people that voted against it, or creating strawman arguments against positions unknown.

[An Old Friend]

This is petty.

How so?

Barking Lion asked if it had been “canceled”, and I explained that it was vetoed by the league.

Should I have withheld my opinion of the trade or any thoughts related to it, even after it was vetoed?

I’m saying it’s petty that y’all vetoed it.

Are you entirely familiar with the thought processes of those who chose to veto it? Seems that would be required to make such a judgement.

The thought process seems to be that there was a dislike that the first place team dealt from a position of strength to shore up other areas. Collectively the league felt that made me more formidable and so decided they didn’t want to let it happen.

Heck, you even told me I needed to make some trades… then when I do, it gets voted against because <gasp> I may have made a smart deal.

Crochet has been a beast. I saw someone say Wheeler might be the best pitcher in baseball.

bWAR
Crochet - 2.7
Wheeler - 2.2

fWAR
Crochet - 2.3
Wheeler - 2.2

FIP
Crochet - 2.77
Wheeler - 2.94

xERA
Crochet - 2.31
Wheeler - 2.77

K/9
Crochet - 12.25
Wheeler - 10.15

But the trade made y’all uncomfortable thinking it might make me tougher to beat, so the veto is really going against the spirit of competition.

So everyone that voted against the trade was only doing it to keep you down? Are you sure that’s it?

I’ve been in this situation before. To get a trade through after it was vetoed - my response was to make a sound defense of the trade, and simply offer the trade again. That works.

Sure, it definitely was a ‘smart’ trade for you. Doesn’t seem too smart to be attacking the five people that voted against it, or creating strawman arguments against positions unknown.

I’m not attacking. I’m frustrated because we agreed to a trade that we thought benefited both teams and the league didn’t let it go through.

Between you and I, I’m frustrated because you’ve been knocking me for not making any trades, but then when I DO make a trade, you knock the trade and don’t let it go through.

So it’s like “you need to make some trades, but not THAT trade”.

[mattmitchl44]

Can you veto a trade and then withdraw your veto later is an explanation is given?

Since we haven’t heard from either party - what might you regard a sufficient ‘explanation’?

I think it would be BL explaining whether they are aware of the regression predictions and if they think the players they are getting are going to keep producing at current levels nonetheless.

Barking Lion is lagging in 3 pitching categories - Wins, Strikeouts, and Quality Starts. He's also pacing to finish about 100 innings under the innings cap. Crochet has obviously been outstanding and close to Wheeler's equal. I get certainty in Wheeler and offload some pitching surplus and he gets an ace with another strong performing starter in Parker. Parker has made 10 starts and hasn't given up more than 3 earned runs in any of them. Both Crochet and Parker have far exceeded Fantasy Pros preseason projections.

Josh Smith's preseason projection / prediction was this: .231 AVG, .684 OPS, 3 HR, 14 RBI, 17 Runs, 2 SB
Josh Smith actual statistics through 63 games are these: .287 AVG, .810 OPS, 4 HR, 24 RBI, 32 Runs, 4 SB

Why would you lean so far into Fantasy Pros rest of season projections when they've whiffed so badly on these players?

I'll give you that his batted ball metrics don't necessarily support the slash line, but he hit like this at every level in the minors. He has plus plate discipline & plus bat to ball skills. He qualifies at 3 positions and represents a nice upgrade from who Barking Lion has been using there.

BL is in good shape in saves so he was comfortable giving up a closer which fills a need for me. He also moves towards closing his innings gap and raises his floor on wins / strikeouts / quality starts.

I offered his choice of Crochet or Ragans and a better infield bat and said explicitly that I was trying to trade up for a SP and fill my saves gap.

Note from An Old Friend
Offering Crochet here but could swap out for Ragans (if you prefer one over the other). Crochet is more highly rated, today. You fill the need for an infield bat and keep Bohm at 1st, I trade up on a SP and get a closer to fix my saves gap. Let me know.

Sorry to be so late in addressing this discussion. I don't spend a lot fo time on fantasy projection sites because it has burned me in the past.

But the deal comes down to this- I am stagnating. I trail in multiple categories and lack of pop is killing me. Josh Smith has not been incredible this season, but his power is what I need. Wheeler is a huge stud but I trust Crochet will pick up some of that and I have always been able to structure my pitching to not totally fall out of the saves category. It is a strategic move with risk, but I am not afraid of it. I have turned down deals that I felt were far worse and been criticized for it.

As I type this, I see that the transaction has disappeared. Does that mean it was cancelled. Please don't do so trying to protect me from myself. I have been around fantasy long enough to have learned the ropes and a trick or two. I'll admit I don't like Yahoo's format. that has hurt me some but I sense some jealousy of AOF in the arguments against this deal. Any of you could have offered something equally as big, but you didn't.

So I was not one of votes to veto the trade, however I can nominally understand the perspectives of those who did.

I think the reaction is obviously because Wheeler is a league-altering piece and I don't think anyone would have assumed that he was even remotely available for discussion. I think we would have assumed that, if you were inclined to make such a big move, you would have put Wheeler up on the trading block announcements and likely profited from the bidding frenzy that would have ensued.

If everyone had felt likely they had had an opportunity to give you their best sales pitch for Wheeler, et. al., and you still choose AOF's package, then I think it probably would have been more understandable.