STLtoday.com

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... &year=2025

From July 11 to the end of the season he never threw 90 pitches in a game. In 7 of 12 starts he didn't get to the 5th inning and only threw 80 pitches in 5 of 12 starts. I'm curious why that was. Did his velocity suddenly drop when he got to a certain pitch count or was Marmol pulling him to save his arm?

Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

Yep. The only thing that was dumb was no one in the org seemed to see it coming or manage his workload earlier.

Also, you’re right, but you know you don’t always have to talk down to people and be a pr1ck, right?

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:00 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

Yep. The only thing that was dumb was no one in the org seemed to see it coming or manage his workload earlier.

Also, you’re right, but you know you don’t always have to talk down to people and be a pr1ck, right?

I play to the level of the post

I answered another poster in another thread who asked this.

Let's remember, Libby wasn't officially told he'd be in the SR until late in spring training.

This meant he didn't properly train all offseason to be a starter (and yes, it really matters).

Oli (and everyone knows I'm not a fan) did the right thing protecting him by limiting his pitches and innings.

The WORSE thing he could've done was push him and risk a shoulder/elbow injury.

Now that he's had a full offseason to train as a starter, I fully expect we see games where he's cruising and goes past 100 pitches and his season ending innings total should be a career high.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:40 am https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... &year=2025

From July 11 to the end of the season he never threw 90 pitches in a game. In 7 of 12 starts he didn't get to the 5th inning and only threw 80 pitches in 5 of 12 starts. I'm curious why that was. Did his velocity suddenly drop when he got to a certain pitch count or was Marmol pulling him to save his arm?

So you complain when Pallante’s pitch total goes up, and also complain when Libby’s total goes down?

Hmm…

Another unfortunate side effect of not having started the rebuild earlier.

Instead of being in full rebuild mode in 2024, the Cardinals think they are going to "compete" by signing Lynn and Gibson. Lynn and Gibson throw ~290 innings in 2024, while Liberatore is relegated mostly to the bullpen and has his innings drop from ~125 (between AAA/ML) in 2023 to just 86 in 2024.

So his then big bump to 150+ IP in 2025 isn't part of a smooth progression from 2023 to 2024 to 2025.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 11:28 am Another unfortunate side effect of not having started the rebuild earlier.

Instead of being in full rebuild mode in 2024, the Cardinals think they are going to "compete" by signing Lynn and Gibson. Lynn and Gibson throw ~290 innings in 2024, while Liberatore is relegated mostly to the bullpen and has his innings drop from ~125 (between AAA/ML) in 2023 to just 86 in 2024.

So his then big bump to 150+ IP in 2025 isn't part of a smooth progression from 2023 to 2024 to 2025.

RE: Mo

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 11:28 am Another unfortunate side effect of not having started the rebuild earlier.

Instead of being in full rebuild mode in 2024, the Cardinals think they are going to "compete" by signing Lynn and Gibson. Lynn and Gibson throw ~290 innings in 2024, while Liberatore is relegated mostly to the bullpen and has his innings drop from ~125 (between AAA/ML) in 2023 to just 86 in 2024.

So his then big bump to 150+ IP in 2025 isn't part of a smooth progression from 2023 to 2024 to 2025.

If we are talking about Libby’s innings, the issue was making Pallante a starter.

The Gray, Lynn, Gibson signing didn’t imped Libby’s growth. It was the roster decisions that did.

I understand he was a relief pitcher the year before but since I don't watch any of the games and the radio doesn't provide a compete picture of what's happening was his velocity dropping during games?

Perhaps I'm not the only one who didn't watch any games?

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:17 am

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:00 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

Yep. The only thing that was dumb was no one in the org seemed to see it coming or manage his workload earlier.

Also, you’re right, but you know you don’t always have to talk down to people and be a pr1ck, right?

I play to the level of the post

No you don’t. You act like a jerk to anyone you disagree with or doesn’t know the exact same info as you.

For as bad of a career as he’s had, they sure are pinning a lot of hopes and dreams on the kid.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 16:09 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:17 am

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:00 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

Yep. The only thing that was dumb was no one in the org seemed to see it coming or manage his workload earlier.

Also, you’re right, but you know you don’t always have to talk down to people and be a pr1ck, right?

I play to the level of the post

No you don’t. You act like a jerk to anyone you disagree with or doesn’t know the exact same info as you.

Deal with it

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 10:00 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 09:50 am Gee wiz, Beave...did you ever look at his innings pitched from the prior season?

Yep. The only thing that was dumb was no one in the org seemed to see it coming or manage his workload earlier.

Also, you’re right, but you know you don’t always have to talk down to people and be a pr1ck, right?

They saw it coming and they did manage his workload by managing his pitch count and calling up mcgreevy for starts to push him back a day. I actually thought they did well with how they managed him to get him through the season without having to shut him down

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 11:28 am Another unfortunate side effect of not having started the rebuild earlier.

Instead of being in full rebuild mode in 2024, the Cardinals think they are going to "compete" by signing Lynn and Gibson. Lynn and Gibson throw ~290 innings in 2024, while Liberatore is relegated mostly to the bullpen and has his innings drop from ~125 (between AAA/ML) in 2023 to just 86 in 2024.

So his then big bump to 150+ IP in 2025 isn't part of a smooth progression from 2023 to 2024 to 2025.

At the point we realized we had too many SPs in 2024 they should have sent Libby to AAA for more of the year to start and keep his IP up. Even on teams that arent deciding to tank there are ways to develop starters properly we we failed at that too.