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No one was better at turning the double play.

RIP Bill

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Interesting note here- mazeroski was selected starting second baseman in 63 AS game but was injured. Javier got the start, giving the NL an all Cardinal infield.

Can you name the other three cardinals.

Talk about a rebuild- the infield of White Javier Groat and Boyer were together in 63, 64, and 65.

In 66, three of that infield was replaced- cepeda for White, Maxvill for Groat, and Charley Smith for Boyer.

Then they won in 67, moving Shannon to third.

I believe it was
1B Bill White
SS Dick Groat
3B Ken Boyer

But that was a long time ago.

I remember it like it was yesterday but most memorable moment in that season was that SOB Dick Nen!

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Javier was also pretty good.

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:01 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Javier was also pretty good.

He was no where near Maz on the DP. No one was.

Roy Face, now Maz. Tough month for old Pirates.

Besides his pivot and his famous HR I'll remember him for his serious chaw.

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:07 am

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:01 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Javier was also pretty good.

He was no where near Maz on the DP. No one was.

I disagree, Javier as I recall watching never got taken out at second. But agree Maz was as good as they get. Also, Javier was the best I ever saw going down the right field line on pop ups. I may be a little older than you, but I saw Javier play his entire career for the Cardinals.

Julian Javier was a remarkable second baseman known for his exceptional defensive skills and ability to turn double plays.
He played for the St. Louis Cardinals and was recognized for his speed and agility on the field, earning him the nickname "The Phantom" for his ability to avoid baserunners.
2
In his career, he turned a significant number of double plays, which contributed to his reputation as one of the best defensive second basemen in baseball history.
2
His defensive prowess was highlighted by his ability to complete double play relays effectively, showcasing his talent in turning plays.
1

Overall, Julian Javier's performance at second base is a testament to his defensive skills and his impact on the game.

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Mazeroski

Still remember on my school playground a bunch of the guys gathered around a small transistor radio listening to the WS 7th game 9th inning .
Teacher on duty said it was time to return to classroom, we begged her to let us listen to final at bat and bingo .. the HR game winner !
In St. Louis , everyone was 100% behind the National League always. What a crazy moment .. ther term 'walk off homer' wasn't used back then .

I saw Javier play his entire career for the Cardinals.

Well whoop-de-(bleep)-doo. Did you find time to watch anyone else? This is supposed to be an appreciation of Maz' career, not another 'this Cardinal was better' opportunity. Try to de-bfib for a bit.

Maz led the NL in DPs for eight straight years. His lowest total in that span was 127 when he was 23.

Javy never led in DPs. He turned 97 DPs his best year.

I liked Javier fine. Great Cardinal, great champion. He was no Maz.

Looking at his stats, he retired at only 35. Reading up on him, he said he was tired of dealing with his weight issues. Played in 143 games in '68 and just 67 in '69. Was last a regular at 33 years old in '70 playing 112 games. Has the all time record for double plays by a 2B (1706) and also Rtot (148) which is Total Zone Total Fielding Runs Above Average (which you often see on the backs of Topps cards in the '60s). Led the league in DP for 8 straight years and was leader in Assists for 9 years. Usually a player with the most stats for any category will have played into their late 30s at least, so quite the accomplishment that he did it while retiring at age 35.

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:13 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:07 am

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:01 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Javier was also pretty good.

He was no where near Maz on the DP. No one was.

I disagree, Javier as I recall watching never got taken out at second. But agree Maz was as good as they get. Also, Javier was the best I ever saw going down the right field line on pop ups. I may be a little older than you, but I saw Javier play his entire career for the Cardinals.

Julian Javier was a remarkable second baseman known for his exceptional defensive skills and ability to turn double plays.
He played for the St. Louis Cardinals and was recognized for his speed and agility on the field, earning him the nickname "The Phantom" for his ability to avoid baserunners.
2
In his career, he turned a significant number of double plays, which contributed to his reputation as one of the best defensive second basemen in baseball history.
2
His defensive prowess was highlighted by his ability to complete double play relays effectively, showcasing his talent in turning plays.
1

Overall, Julian Javier's performance at second base is a testament to his defensive skills and his impact on the game.

Great. But Javier turned 907 DPs or 1 every 14.3 innings played. Mazeroski turned an MLB record 1,706 DPs or one every 10.7 innings. Nellie Fox ranks second in turning DPs, but is 87 DPs behind Maz despite the fact that Fox played 1,881 more innings at second base. The active leader in DPs today is Altuve. He has 1,016. The most recent player to get even within 300 of Maz was Robinson Cano and he's 288 behind.

Guess why Maz contemporary Javier never won a Gold Glove?

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 10:32 am

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:13 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:07 am

OldRed wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 09:01 am

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am No one was better at turning the double play.

Javier was also pretty good.

He was no where near Maz on the DP. No one was.

I disagree, Javier as I recall watching never got taken out at second. But agree Maz was as good as they get. Also, Javier was the best I ever saw going down the right field line on pop ups. I may be a little older than you, but I saw Javier play his entire career for the Cardinals.

Julian Javier was a remarkable second baseman known for his exceptional defensive skills and ability to turn double plays.
He played for the St. Louis Cardinals and was recognized for his speed and agility on the field, earning him the nickname "The Phantom" for his ability to avoid baserunners.
2
In his career, he turned a significant number of double plays, which contributed to his reputation as one of the best defensive second basemen in baseball history.
2
His defensive prowess was highlighted by his ability to complete double play relays effectively, showcasing his talent in turning plays.
1

Overall, Julian Javier's performance at second base is a testament to his defensive skills and his impact on the game.

Great. But Javier turned 907 DPs or 1 every 14.3 innings played. Mazeroski turned an MLB record 1,706 DPs or one every 10.7 innings. Nellie Fox ranks second in turning DPs, but is 87 DPs behind Maz despite the fact that Fox played 1,881 more innings at second base. The active leader in DPs today is Altuve. He has 1,016. The most recent player to get even within 300 of Maz was Robinson Cano and he's 288 behind.

Guess why Maz contemporary Javier never won a Gold Glove?

I never said Javier was better. But it takes a lot of baserunners to turn double plays.

nighthawk wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:04 am
No one was better at turning the double play.

All I said was this.
Javier was also pretty good.