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There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
by ScotchMIrish
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
by Talkin' Baseball
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
by ScotchMIrish
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 07:55 am
by Talkin' Baseball
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
Pallante was a disaster for sure, but who else did he have that he should have used instead?
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 08:02 am
by RamFan08NY
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
The real problem was, Oli was trotting out there the best that he had. A manager cant go to his pen in the 3rd or 4th inning every game just because the SP hasn't got anything. You cant burn up the pen either.
None of us liked seeing Miles, and Pallante going out there every 5th day, but thats what Oli was given.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 08:16 am
by ScotchMIrish
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:55 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
Pallante was a disaster for sure, but who else did he have that he should have used instead?
He wasn't great but in April his ERA was 4.13 and climbed in a linear path as Marmol continued to leave him on the mound to throw his predetermined number of pitches. Contrast that with Liberatore who in 29 starts only threw 90 + pitches 6 times. Only once from July on. Pallante threw 90 + 5 times in August alone.
Bring up an arm from the minors and skip a start. It's not rocket science. He obviously had a tired arm. It's mind numbingly stupid to leave him in games to post an ERA of 8 for the month.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 08:17 am
by ScotchMIrish
RamFan08NY wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:02 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
The real problem was, Oli was trotting out there the best that he had. A manager cant go to his pen in the 3rd or 4th inning every game just because the SP hasn't got anything. You cant burn up the pen either.
None of us liked seeing Miles, and Pallante going out there every 5th day, but thats what Oli was given.
With a starting pitcher who obviously has a tired arm you skip a start and bring up someone from the minors.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 08:53 am
by Hoosier59
I know I’m in the minority, when it comes to Pallante, but think he has a pretty good season this year. He was good in ‘24, but obviously not in ‘25. However, as you said, he had a tired arm, but was continually thrown out there and allowed to sink! If I’m wrong, I’ll own up to it, but I think he pitches well in ‘26!
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 08:56 am
by rockondlouie
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.
But
I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:07 am
by Talkin' Baseball
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:16 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:55 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?
Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.
The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?
Pallante was a disaster for sure, but who else did he have that he should have used instead?
He wasn't great but in April his ERA was 4.13 and climbed in a linear path as Marmol continued to leave him on the mound to throw his predetermined number of pitches. Contrast that with Liberatore who in 29 starts only threw 90 + pitches 6 times. Only once from July on. Pallante threw 90 + 5 times in August alone.
Bring up an arm from the minors and skip a start. It's not rocket science. He obviously had a tired arm. It's mind numbingly stupid to leave him in games to post an ERA of 8 for the month.
You realize Marmol doesn't call anyone up, or send anyone down, right? If he skipped a start, who should he use? And, how many times can you use this Plan B to skip him. I agree that someone (almost anyone) else was needed- the roster didn't permit it.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:10 am
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
Wow...
Replacing a manager (especially in a POBO's first offseason) doesn't imply that the roster is good but the manager isn't. It can imply that the POBO 1) wants to go in a new direction, 2) wants a fresh group, or 3) thinks the manager's tutelage is counterproductive (ie. he does more harm than good).
If it were up to you, you would replace Marmol? That's cool. But Bloom knows more about OM than you or I do.
You're looking into it too much. Bloom wanted to retain Oli because obviously, he feels OM can be an asset to a rebuilding team.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:16 am
by Hoosier59
Mathews wasn't totally healthy last year and had some struggles of his own, so he shouldn’t have been brought up. However, Memphis had two or three older pitchers having good years that the Cardinals signed, but refused to bring up! That was questioned by some here at the time. Anyone brought up would have had to be added to the 40 man roster, but, as was pointed out, there were guys that could have been released that wouldn’t have been missed! Mo refused to make any changes!
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:19 am
by Banner29
ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:10 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
Wow...
Replacing a manager (especially in a POBO's first offseason) doesn't imply that the roster is good but the manager isn't. It can imply that the POBO 1) wants to go in a new direction, 2) wants a fresh group, or 3) thinks the manager's tutelage is counterproductive (ie. he does more harm than good).
If it were up to you, you would replace Marmol? That's cool. But Bloom knows more about OM than you or I do.
You're looking into it too much. Bloom wanted to retain Oli because obviously, he feels OM can be an asset to a rebuilding team.
Maybe, but this is also the same guy giving Herrera another shot at Catcher even though he has demonstrated zero ability at handling the position. He also hasn’t given him an extension.
I don’t know if it’s so much Bloom feeling he can be an asset rather than he’s giving Oli an opportunity to show that he was just being handcuffed by the bow tie (bleep). While also specifically putting the pressure on him with moves like “oh hey Oli, say have you met Yadier Molina by chance?”
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:27 am
by Carp4Cy
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
One can always do more.
No Oli wasn’t guilty of fumbling away a potential World Series roster, although he did exactly this in 2022.
But he also did not do much at all, too, improve the talent that he has been given such as it is. And now two of our best homegrown players and All-Stars, Donovan and Helsley have been traded.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:39 am
by icon
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:27 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
One can always do more.
No Oli wasn’t guilty of fumbling away a potential World Series roster, although he did exactly this in 2022.
But he also did not do much at all, too, improve the talent that he has been given such as it is. And now two of our best homegrown players and All-Stars, Donovan and Helsley have been traded.
A lot of folks on CT seem to think that coaching stops at the major league level and that players who come up from the minors should be polished and ready. How did Marmol and his staff make some of these young players better? I'm talking about Gorman, Walker and Scott.
Re: There is a reason Mozeliak was replaced and Marmol wasn't
Posted: 20 Feb 2026 09:39 am
by ScotchMIrish
rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am
The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.
If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.
Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.
But
I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.
You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?