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From reports, Mariners/Cardinals have had ‘lengthy’ trade discussions but thus far Seattle unwilling to include a MLB starting type pitcher in the deal though they appear to be wiling to part ways with a top prospect switch-pitcher Cjntje.
Possibly Bloom could bring a 3rd team into the mix who has a key player that Bloom would want added to the deal and have Seattle send a trade piece to that team so Bloom gets the added player he desires.
3-way blockbuster trades do happen in MLB.
Maybe Bloom could orchestrate one to get his ‘haul’ for Donovan.
PS Not only does Donovan go to Seattle but another Cardinal player could be involved to the 3rd team.

ramfandan wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:50 am From reports, Mariners/Cardinals have had ‘lengthy’ trade discussions but thus far Seattle unwilling to include a MLB starting type pitcher in the deal though they appear to be wiling to part ways with a top prospect switch-pitcher Cjntje.
Possibly Bloom could bring a 3rd team into the mix who has a key player that Bloom would want added to the deal and have Seattle send a trade piece to that team so Bloom gets the added player he desires.
3-way blockbuster trades do happen in MLB.
Maybe Bloom could orchestrate one to get his ‘haul’ for Donovan.
PS Not only does Donovan go to Seattle but another Cardinal player could be involved to the 3rd team.

My take. The team is following the Dodgers model of hoarding pitchers. Dodgers had more starters on IL than we have starting.

Fresh healthy power arms is where he is headed. Means starters innings will be limited. That’s good. Staff is young, so they go 5-6 innings, bring in the power.

Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

If Donovan is traded,it wouldn't surprise me if the Cards hold on to Nado ,at least to start the season. Nado would be somewhat of an insurance policy if JJ needs more seasoning or the Cards may prefer to use JJ at 2B. I don't think there is much confidence in Gorman defensively to handle 3B. Nado is till an asset as a team leader and still excellent defensively. Who knows,maybe he will find his bat again.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

we have 2. Jury is out on Rainiel. As improved as he was last year, his bar was very, very low entering 2025. He has a ways to go before he gets into the conversation with Bernal and Crooks defensively. And he doesn't have to, his bat is what will play.

Pages, Pozo, and Herrera aren't prized catchers. Pages is the best of that bunch. The pitching staff is highly comfortable with him. You need your other positions to pick up the slack offensively

Only in our minds do we have a plethora of prized catchers. LHP...yes, there are too many in our system....that's your current and future trade pieces.

craviduce wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

we have 2. Jury is out on Rainiel. As improved as he was last year, his bar was very, very low entering 2025. He has a ways to go before he gets into the conversation with Bernal and Crooks defensively. And he doesn't have to, his bat is what will play.

Pages, Pozo, and Herrera aren't prized catchers. Pages is the best of that bunch. The pitching staff is highly comfortable with him. You need your other positions to pick up the slack offensively

Only in our minds do we have a plethora of prized catchers. LHP...yes, there are too many in our system....that's your current and future trade pieces.

Nice write. Ok. We have two prized. Remove Herrera as he goes to left or DH. So we have two, pozo, and raniel.

Wouldn’t one of the two with Donovan push the needle whatsoever. If not- Crooks or Pages will.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:55 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:50 am From reports, Mariners/Cardinals have had ‘lengthy’ trade discussions but thus far Seattle unwilling to include a MLB starting type pitcher in the deal though they appear to be wiling to part ways with a top prospect switch-pitcher Cjntje.
Possibly Bloom could bring a 3rd team into the mix who has a key player that Bloom would want added to the deal and have Seattle send a trade piece to that team so Bloom gets the added player he desires.
3-way blockbuster trades do happen in MLB.
Maybe Bloom could orchestrate one to get his ‘haul’ for Donovan.
PS Not only does Donovan go to Seattle but another Cardinal player could be involved to the 3rd team.

My take. The team is following the Dodgers model of hoarding pitchers. Dodgers had more starters on IL than we have starting.

Fresh healthy power arms is where he is headed. Means starters innings will be limited. That’s good. Staff is young, so they go 5-6 innings, bring in the power.

I think trying to hoard arms and hoping that in a few years you have a rotation filled with Aces is the best way to rebuild. I realize that the Phillies did not win the World Series in 2011, but I would take that starting rotation over almost any in history. That should be the goal in a rebuild.

2011 Phillies Rotation:

Roy Halladay - 8.8 WAR - 19-6 record. 2.35 ERA with 220 k's in 233.2 IP. 8 complete games!
Cliff Lee - 8.5 WAR - 17-8 record. 2.40 ERA with 238 k's in 232.2 IP. 6 shut outs!
Cole Hamels - 6.4 WAR - 14-9 record. 2.79 ERA with 194 k's in 216.0 IP.
Roy Oswalt - 2.1 WAR - 9-10 record. 3.69 ERA with 93 k's in 139.0 IP.
Vance Worley - 3.3 WAR - 11-3 record. 3.01 ERA with 119 k's in 131.2 IP.

Also Kyle Kendrick started 15 games that year - 1.8 WAR - 8-6 record. 3.22 ERA with only 59 k's in 114.2 IP.

That's a combined 30.9 WAR in the rotation!!! A combined ERA of 2.80!

They still lost because they didn't have Chris Carpenter, but that is the model I am shooting for. Maybe get 3/5 homegrown and pay up for 2 of them.

ggnoobs wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 09:03 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:55 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:50 am From reports, Mariners/Cardinals have had ‘lengthy’ trade discussions but thus far Seattle unwilling to include a MLB starting type pitcher in the deal though they appear to be wiling to part ways with a top prospect switch-pitcher Cjntje.
Possibly Bloom could bring a 3rd team into the mix who has a key player that Bloom would want added to the deal and have Seattle send a trade piece to that team so Bloom gets the added player he desires.
3-way blockbuster trades do happen in MLB.
Maybe Bloom could orchestrate one to get his ‘haul’ for Donovan.
PS Not only does Donovan go to Seattle but another Cardinal player could be involved to the 3rd team.

My take. The team is following the Dodgers model of hoarding pitchers. Dodgers had more starters on IL than we have starting.

Fresh healthy power arms is where he is headed. Means starters innings will be limited. That’s good. Staff is young, so they go 5-6 innings, bring in the power.

I think trying to hoard arms and hoping that in a few years you have a rotation filled with Aces is the best way to rebuild. I realize that the Phillies did not win the World Series in 2011, but I would take that starting rotation over almost any in history. That should be the goal in a rebuild.

2011 Phillies Rotation:

Roy Halladay - 8.8 WAR - 19-6 record. 2.35 ERA with 220 k's in 233.2 IP. 8 complete games!
Cliff Lee - 8.5 WAR - 17-8 record. 2.40 ERA with 238 k's in 232.2 IP. 6 shut outs!
Cole Hamels - 6.4 WAR - 14-9 record. 2.79 ERA with 194 k's in 216.0 IP.
Roy Oswalt - 2.1 WAR - 9-10 record. 3.69 ERA with 93 k's in 139.0 IP.
Vance Worley - 3.3 WAR - 11-3 record. 3.01 ERA with 119 k's in 131.2 IP.

Also Kyle Kendrick started 15 games that year - 1.8 WAR - 8-6 record. 3.22 ERA with only 59 k's in 114.2 IP.

That's a combined 30.9 WAR in the rotation!!! A combined ERA of 2.80!

They still lost because they didn't have Chris Carpenter, but that is the model I am shooting for. Maybe get 3/5 homegrown and pay up for 2 of them.

Really nice input. And yes a fine rotation. Hard to believe that staff had no? 20 game winners.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 09:03 am

craviduce wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

we have 2. Jury is out on Rainiel. As improved as he was last year, his bar was very, very low entering 2025. He has a ways to go before he gets into the conversation with Bernal and Crooks defensively. And he doesn't have to, his bat is what will play.

Pages, Pozo, and Herrera aren't prized catchers. Pages is the best of that bunch. The pitching staff is highly comfortable with him. You need your other positions to pick up the slack offensively

Only in our minds do we have a plethora of prized catchers. LHP...yes, there are too many in our system....that's your current and future trade pieces.

Nice write. Ok. We have two prized. Remove Herrera as he goes to left or DH. So we have two, pozo, and raniel.

Wouldn’t one of the two with Donovan push the needle whatsoever. If not- Crooks or Pages will.

I get what your inferring, Sikes....but Pozo won't ever move the needle on a trade. He wouldn't put it over the top. Maybe, and I'm stretching here, but maybe Pages could. However, I feel Pages is important to the pitching staff in 2026. After 2026, trade him. As much as I believe Crooks is an above average catcher with a good arm, I don't want him taking the entire load of catching responsibilities in 2026...not even half...at least to start the year. If it works out that he takes 3/4 because of his play, then come the trade deadline move Pages. For now....I trust Pages with the pitching staff. We need to move off Pages' bat as a measuring stick to his quality as a catcher...we're not striving to compete right now, we're rebuilding...and the Pitching staff is more important than our offensive frustrations. Get on the OF to pick up Pages slack in the lineup.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

Because they have Cal Raleigh?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 09:10 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

Because they have Cal Raleigh?

Two thoughts. Maybe another team needs a second catcher, with Donovan, or does Seattle need a fine backup.

Musing.

I don't know if I'm softening my stance with Seattle, or realizing my position was probably a bit biased...I still believe the market dictates a better deal than Cijntje and Montes (both have bigger questions marks than you'd like, and will likely fall in Mlbpipelines new rankings set for January/February). Will the market strengthen in our favor once the Marte deal is done? I'm hoping, I really am.

However, on paper, it's a really good deal...one, if a true offer, we shouldn't let it go in the end. It gives us more assets, and right now, I think that's how the players should be viewed....Assets. I like Montes more than Cijntje. I think our new hitting instructors and hitting technologies could/would help him. He does have the encouraging BB rate, so he's fixable on the other parts at the plate. And of course the power is more than impressive.

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Side note, and I've really been trying to hash this out the last few days.... Are reports of Cijntje and Montes slightly erroneous? Should it be "Cijntje OR Montes", and the Cards want more than just 1 big prospect? And what are the Cards demands? Is it 1 of Cijntje or Montes and a MLB ready OF bat?

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sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 09:13 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 09:10 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:37 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 08:29 am Is a Hurdy Gurdy trade a blockbuster?

For the Cardinals he is. Especially if Romero and possible minor league players are added to the deal.
But we get your point!

Why not one of our prized catchers. We only have 5 ish.

Because they have Cal Raleigh?

Two thoughts. Maybe another team needs a second catcher, with Donovan, or does Seattle need a fine backup.

Musing.

they've addressed their back up needs. Signed Knizner. They only need him for 20-30 starts behind the plate.

ramfandan wrote: ↑30 Dec 2025 07:50 am From reports, Mariners/Cardinals have had ‘lengthy’ trade discussions but thus far Seattle unwilling to include a MLB starting type pitcher in the deal though they appear to be wiling to part ways with a top prospect switch-pitcher Cjntje.
Possibly Bloom could bring a 3rd team into the mix who has a key player that Bloom would want added to the deal and have Seattle send a trade piece to that team so Bloom gets the added player he desires.
3-way blockbuster trades do happen in MLB.
Maybe Bloom could orchestrate one to get his ‘haul’ for Donovan.
PS Not only does Donovan go to Seattle but another Cardinal player could be involved to the 3rd team.

There is no logjam between STL and SEA.
Bloom is negotiating with multiple teams right now - and those conversations are complicated by the fact that many of those teams are also in talks regarding Bregman, Marte, Bichette, Suarez, Arraez, Okamoto, and others.
The market for Donovan is far from being sorted out currently.
Bloom has no requirement to settle any negotiations with Seattle at this time.
He can do so at the time of his choosing.