STLtoday.com

Based on a lot of recent threads, there continues to be the CT philosophical divide which revolves around the notion that the Cardinals not only have to win, they have to win "the right way."

We know the Cardinals are a middle market team. They aren't the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc. on one end. Nor are they the Rays, Pirates, As, etc. on the other.

But there seems to be a consistent CT contingent that gets stuck on the idea that the Cardinals must philosophically think and act like a "light" version of the Dodgers, Yankees, etc. - with an emphasis on spending money and having veteran "stars" - rather than a "heavy" version of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc. - with an emphasis on a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee. It seems like some are fixated on the idea that acknowledging Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc. as models to improve upon is "beneath them."

The simple truth in 2025 is that the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, etc. - the true big market teams - are moving farther and farther away from the middle market teams when it comes to spending. Their advantage over the middle market teams is getting bigger and bigger with each passing year. So the middle market teams - like the Cardinals - have to change their philosophical approach. They have to stop thinking like "light" versions of the big market teams and more like "heavy" versions of the small market teams. That is the Cardinals path if they are ever going to be successful at consistently competing with the likes of the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, etc. going forward.

Thankfully, the Cardinals organization seems to be embracing such a philosophical shift and doesn't believe it is "beneath them" to learn from the likes of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

9.) Turning a Strength in something they pioneered (analytics) into one of the worst in the Show

10.) Abandoning the International Market.

Remember that time Legendary Cardinal Fernando Tatis Sr presented his son to them? (bleep) that Mid-Market Energy…

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

It has everything to do with what you claimed. You claim the reason the Cardinals can’t operate like they had, where they could spend in the Top 10 (no one is expecting them to spend like the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets) and have a Top 10 Farm System is because they aren’t a large market. The reality is, they couldn’t do it because an arrogant yet insecure Front Office became so inept it required a demolition crew at all levels.

Yes, we want both Star Players and a Great Farm System because that is when our beloved franchise peaks… at every period of their existence. The Cardinals should aspire to be more than a feeder team to LA… and apparently Boston

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:21 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

It has everything to do with what you claimed. You claim the reason the Cardinals can’t operate like they had, where they could spend in the Top 10 (no one is expecting them to spend like the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets) and have a Top 10 Farm System is because they aren’t a large market. The reality is, they couldn’t do it because an arrogant yet insecure Front Office became so inept it required a demolition crew at all levels.

Yes, we want both Star Players and a Great Farm System because that is when our beloved franchise peaks… at every period of their existence. The Cardinals should aspire to be more than a feeder team to LA… and apparently Boston

The OP wasn't really about the team, it was about the irrational expectations/perspective of CT.

This issue is point of emphasis.

The Cardinals emphasis needs to be on being a team grounded primarily on a foundation of young, cost controlled players delivered by their player development system, and then secondarily supplemented by a small number of expensive "star" players. That is how teams like Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc., and their fans, have to think.

The big market teams can afford to have possessing a larger number of expensive "star" players be their primary point of emphasis, with them secondarily supplemented by young, cost controlled talent.

The Cardinals need to be a 60/40 or 70/30 balance weighted toward young, cost controlled talent over expensive "name" "star" players - more like a Milwaukee/Cleveland, whereas the big market teams can afford to be a 60/40 or 70/30 balance weighted toward expensive "name" "star" players.

Put another way - Cardinals fans need to stop thinking about "eras" as being defined by the most expensive, "name" players on the roster (e.g., the "Goldschmidt/Arenado" or "Goldschimdt/Arenado/Gray" teams) and start thinking about "eras" as being defined by the best young, cost controlled players on the roster (e.g., the hopefully forthcoming "Wetherholt/Doyle/Winn" teams).

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

You have to be the most smug poster ever. Your OP is simply a false explanation of what you THINK those who disagree with your tired narrative thinks.

Newsflash…no one on this board knows [shirt] about running an MLB team. If we did, we’d be doing it. We’re are FANS, nothing more nothing less. Some more delusional than others.

Some want to spend on experienced and more talented players. Some desire only precious prospects. And guess what…some want a balanced mix of both. Why does that torment your soul?

Think it adds up to "Baseball Is Broken" - Forcibly separated into two or more pieces; fractured:

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:21 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

It has everything to do with what you claimed. You claim the reason the Cardinals can’t operate like they had, where they could spend in the Top 10 (no one is expecting them to spend like the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets) and have a Top 10 Farm System is because they aren’t a large market. The reality is, they couldn’t do it because an arrogant yet insecure Front Office became so inept it required a demolition crew at all levels.

Yes, we want both Star Players and a Great Farm System because that is when our beloved franchise peaks… at every period of their existence. The Cardinals should aspire to be more than a feeder team to LA… and apparently Boston

Your responses were great. There’s no reasoning with this guy. He’ll just filibuster you if you think there are options other than tanking.

Prospects to him are like that (bleep) ring is to Gollum.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:49 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

You have to be the most smug poster ever. Your OP is simply a false explanation of what you THINK those who disagree with your tired narrative thinks.

Newsflash…no one on this board knows [shirt] about running an MLB team. If we did, we’d be doing it. We’re are FANS, nothing more nothing less. Some more delusional than others.

Some want to spend on experienced and more talented players. Some desire only precious prospects. And guess what…some want a balanced mix of both. Why does that torment your soul?

It doesn't. At all. Why do you keep insisting that it does?

As I note above, and have noted every time this comes up, the Cardinals WILL NEED TO SPEND on expensive veterans - and spend more than a Milwaukee or Cleveland - to fill gaps on their roster. I keep having to repeat that over and over again, apparently. It is literally right in the OP:

...a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee.

The ONLY thing I reject is the mind-numbing petulance that they MUST SPEND TO THEIR LIMIT RIGHT NOW for 2026. 2026 is a moot point. It's dead, IMO. And that's OK.

The only way they can spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW isn't by sensibly signing Dustin Mays to short 1 or 2 year deals. They can only spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW by going out and chaining themselves to more really expensive veterans on longer term contracts. Right now, those are almost certainly NOT going to be wise investments for a team in no position to be competitive in 2026 (or probably 2027) anyway. There is no reason to take on another "Nolan Arenado" contract right now.

The issue isn't how much they are, or are not, spending in 2026. The issue is WHO they would have to commit themselves to for 3, 4, 5 years down the road in order to spend as much as you demand they spend right now.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:03 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:49 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

You have to be the most smug poster ever. Your OP is simply a false explanation of what you THINK those who disagree with your tired narrative thinks.

Newsflash…no one on this board knows [shirt] about running an MLB team. If we did, we’d be doing it. We’re are FANS, nothing more nothing less. Some more delusional than others.

Some want to spend on experienced and more talented players. Some desire only precious prospects. And guess what…some want a balanced mix of both. Why does that torment your soul?

It doesn't. At all. Why do you keep insisting that it does?

As I note above, and have noted every time this comes up, the Cardinals WILL NEED TO SPEND on expensive veterans - and spend more than a Milwaukee or Cleveland - to fill gaps on their roster. I keep having to repeat that over and over again, apparently.

The ONLY thing I reject is the mind-numbing petulance that they MUST SPEND TO THEIR LIMIT RIGHT NOW for 2026. 2026 is a moot point. It's dead, IMO. And that's OK.

The only way they can spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW isn't by sensibly signing Dustin Mays to short 1 or 2 year deals. They can only spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW by going out and chaining themselves to more really expensive veterans on longer term contracts. Right now, those are almost certainly NOT going to be wise investments for a team in no position to be competitive in 2026 (or probably 2027) anyway.

Why do keep telling the other half how they think? Your OP was not accurate at all, and you can definitely count me in as the other half.

Not only was it inaccurate, it intentionally paints a picture of stupidity and short sightedness that YOU think those of us who disagree possess.

There is a lot of room for independent thought in the vast space between your delusional perceptions and the mindset of the blind big spender crowd.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:12 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:03 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:49 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:15 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:07 am I don’t think that’s the case at all. The Cardinals made lots of bad decisions that lead to their current demise. It wasn’t because they were trying to keep up with the Jones, it’s because they were paralyzed to make the right move when they realized how far behind the right-ball their front office had become.

1.) Luhnow humiliated them.
Not only did they get caught “hacking” his database in Houston, but they arrogant outed themselves.

Then, Luhnow started winning and baseball became overly interested in what he had to say, like trimming down the farm. So, the Cardinals, who made their nut as a franchise because they basically invented the farm and at one point had THIRTY-THREE teams under their umbrella, followed that philosophy by cutting an entire level off.

2.) The Cardinals refused to offer mega contracts to the 26 Year Old Star Free Agents, instead choosing to… trade asset for older veterans.

So, rather than sign Bryce Harper at 26 (who eventually agreed to a $330M/13), they traded for 31 year old Paul Goldschmidt for $130M/5. Bryce Harper just now turned 33.

3.) They traded 2 OUTSTANDING COST CONTROLLED PITCHERS for a Left Fielder with a shoulder injury and the mental capacity of an 11 year old. Those two pitchers would be in constant discussion for Cy Young. Their LFer was known for a Strip Club brawl and one of the more hilarious blooper plays of all time.

4.) Rather than invest in star players, they overcompensated by overpaying on complimentary players like Dexter Fowler.

5.) They were so paralyzed by their ineptitude, they kept handing out extensions to their own players like Matt Carpenter, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, etc.

6.) Everyone was fleecing this Front Office because they were so inadequate that they not only couldn’t properly evaluate their own players in-house, but they couldn’t properly develop the ones they had. It became a running joke when players would go elsewhere and thrive.

7.) Choosing Rookie Managers over proven World Series pedigree

8.) Nerds w/access databases unable to evaluate nor develop their own players ousting proven veteran scouts and coaches in the minors

Being an “mid-market” team isn’t an excuse for having operational malfeasance in your front office.

None of that really has much to do with the point made in the OP.

But, sure, more than one thing can be true. The Cardinals have been, until Bloom, pursuing a poorly constructed philosophy AND doing it badly.

You have to be the most smug poster ever. Your OP is simply a false explanation of what you THINK those who disagree with your tired narrative thinks.

Newsflash…no one on this board knows [shirt] about running an MLB team. If we did, we’d be doing it. We’re are FANS, nothing more nothing less. Some more delusional than others.

Some want to spend on experienced and more talented players. Some desire only precious prospects. And guess what…some want a balanced mix of both. Why does that torment your soul?

It doesn't. At all. Why do you keep insisting that it does?

As I note above, and have noted every time this comes up, the Cardinals WILL NEED TO SPEND on expensive veterans - and spend more than a Milwaukee or Cleveland - to fill gaps on their roster. I keep having to repeat that over and over again, apparently.

The ONLY thing I reject is the mind-numbing petulance that they MUST SPEND TO THEIR LIMIT RIGHT NOW for 2026. 2026 is a moot point. It's dead, IMO. And that's OK.

The only way they can spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW isn't by sensibly signing Dustin Mays to short 1 or 2 year deals. They can only spend to their $170, $180, etc. million limit RIGHT NOW by going out and chaining themselves to more really expensive veterans on longer term contracts. Right now, those are almost certainly NOT going to be wise investments for a team in no position to be competitive in 2026 (or probably 2027) anyway.

Why do keep telling the other half how they think? Your OP was not accurate at all, and you can definitely count me in as the other half.

Not only was it inaccurate, it intentionally paints a picture of stupidity and short sightedness that YOU think those of us who disagree possess.

There is a lot of room for independent thought in the vast space between your delusional perceptions and the mindset of the blind big spender crowd.

It is certainly what gets reflected every time CT is aghast at the idea that the Cardinals could ever think about modelling their approach on what Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc. do - but do it better by ultimately being able to spend somewhat more.

It is certainly what gets reflected every time CT insists that - even if the team is bad/mediocre - they MUST spend a lot on some "stars" anyway so fans have someone to come watch and jerseys to buy.

It is certainly what gets reflected every time CT insists that the Cardinals can follow the same systematic approach they did 20, 25, etc. years ago when the likes of the Dodgers were outspending them by $20 million instead of the $120+ million they can, and do, outspend them by today.

Etc. - It all fits.

Another day another thread by the OP defending his position without realizing any thought of time frames or fan apathy.

Wonder what the title of tomorrow's thread will be?

Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:23 am Another day another thread by the OP defending his position without realizing any thought of time frames or fan apathy.

The history of Cardinals attendance shows no evidence of long standing "apathy" when the team wins. It the team is bad for a while, attendance drops. But as soon as the team starts winning again, attendance rockets back up again.

The Cardinals were bad in the 1970s. But as soon as they bounced back in the 1980s, attendance rose rapidly to 2 (1982), 2.5 (1985), 3 (1987) million.

The Cardinals were bad in the early 1990s. But as soon as they bounced back, attendance rose rapidly to 2.5 (1996), almost 3.5 (2000), etc. million.

It doesn’t need to be either or. Every team in this league regardless of their money situation should be putting HEAVY emphasis on their player development. It should be the engine on any team.

Not every team though can be even “light” versions of the Dodgers, Phillies etc but the Cardinals can. They can still spend and combine the 2 into making a pretty solid franchise that puts out constant winning baseball and legit World Series aspirations.

I don’t know why people feel like they need to pick sides. And stick to it and curse the other point of view. That seems to be the trend these days for a lot of things. But I won’t get into that too much and risk the mods pooping their pants in anger

11WSChamps wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:23 am Another day another thread by the OP defending his position without realizing any thought of time frames or fan apathy.

Wonder what the title of tomorrow's thread will be?

I was looking for lyrics to pump the thread a bit. Was drawing a blank. Till your entry. Opened a whole new can of worms- thread title.

For starters- A Day in the Life