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I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

The Cardinals were never going to add more than a Mikolas type this year or someone on a pillow deal. They have made that pretty clear with Bloom's comments. The SP prices are just sky high. If you look at Dylan Cease's statistics, he is Mikolas with a higher strike out rate. The sabre stats love him. The results sure are not different though. That guy got 7/$210M for very mediocre results...

The Cardinals are where they are because of having to pay for starting pitching. Mo is gone. The new guy is going to develope pitching. It couldn't be clearer. Not sure why these posts keep cycling thru.

2ninr wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:44 pm The Cardinals are where they are because of having to pay for starting pitching. Mo is gone. The new guy is going to develope pitching. It couldn't be clearer. Not sure why these posts keep cycling thru.

I am talking about rotation with 5-7 Doyle types to do what these other teams are doing. That will not happen at one time with draft and develop only. I see the contenders having 3-4 aces and 3-4 2/3 types.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:32 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

The Cardinals were never going to add more than a Mikolas type this year or someone on a pillow deal. They have made that pretty clear with Bloom's comments. The SP prices are just sky high. If you look at Dylan Cease's statistics, he is Mikolas with a higher strike out rate. The sabre stats love him. The results sure are not different though. That guy got 7/$210M for very mediocre results...

Because contenders are going to want 7 SP that would be an Ace for the cardinals. That’s my point it’s not just about having a ACE now it’s about having a full rotation of them. Draft and develop will not do that. It will get them half way there but they need to add FS for that kind of depth.

The Cardinals aren’t going to pay “ace” money to an ace starter. Hopefully the Cardinals are successful acquiring good young pitching when they trade the guys they are going to move. I also hope they target a couple of guys early that they are interested in as FAs that might be coming off down years or possibly small injuries and go hard after them.

Guys like Buehler, May, Mahle would be my targets. If the Cardinals could land 2 of them with what they have and what they might acquire would be a good start. We are all anxiously waiting to see the Cardinals direction.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:32 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

The Cardinals were never going to add more than a Mikolas type this year or someone on a pillow deal. They have made that pretty clear with Bloom's comments. The SP prices are just sky high. If you look at Dylan Cease's statistics, he is Mikolas with a higher strike out rate. The sabre stats love him. The results sure are not different though. That guy got 7/$210M for very mediocre results...

Wow, c'mon. Lol

Lol...I don't see Atlanta or the Giants as contenders...not even the Padres

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 19:42 pm Lol...I don't see Atlanta or the Giants as contenders...not even the Padres

I am talking teams with top 10 payrolls and view their windows as open. Yes big markets but it’s the trickle down effect I am recferrring to. That Dodger model last year changed things. They’d are now going top end deep and it’s raising the mid tier cost for small market wannabes like the Cardinals. If the cardinals don’t want to be left with Mikolas they need to jump early and go get a “Ace” that is at least better than Libertore.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

Are you aware there is zero chance of the Cardinals signing two aces and the plan doesnt include big money investments for 2026?

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 20:46 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

Are you aware there is zero chance of the Cardinals signing two aces and the plan doesnt include big money investments for 2026?

Yes. I am talking about the trickle down effect of all the top 10 likely signing above market because of demand and how to get a better arm then Libertore it will be expensiive. Anything less then just don’t spend at all and go with what they have. Bite the 50 win bullet

Careful, somebody will come and suggest we trade Liberator and any other starters we’ve got left for prospects because starters are in such high demand.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 20:50 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 20:46 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

Are you aware there is zero chance of the Cardinals signing two aces and the plan doesnt include big money investments for 2026?

Yes. I am talking about the trickle down effect of all the top 10 likely signing above market because of demand and how to get a better arm then Libertore it will be expensiive. Anything less then just don’t spend at all and go with what they have. Bite the 50 win bullet

This is where my should we not even field a MLB team while rebuilding thread from last month almost makes sense in some posters alternate universes.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 21:28 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 20:50 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 20:46 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:15 pm I have seen many reports that the Yankees Atlanta Giants Padres Toronto Philly and all the contenders will try to go with 7 or more SP following the Dodgers program last year of having 10 and limiting all their IP. Any discomfort and a brief IL stint. That is going to make the mid tier SP market thin fast and go above market. Hope Dewitt realizes this and attacks early. I fear a Mikolas type is best they will add when they really need to add to top of rotation. Libertore the #1 is really a #3-4

Are you aware there is zero chance of the Cardinals signing two aces and the plan doesnt include big money investments for 2026?

Yes. I am talking about the trickle down effect of all the top 10 likely signing above market because of demand and how to get a better arm then Libertore it will be expensiive. Anything less then just don’t spend at all and go with what they have. Bite the 50 win bullet

This is where my should we not even field a MLB team while rebuilding thread from last month almost makes sense in some posters alternate universes.

I wonder why 3 years later they are still tearing down? This was handled wrong from the beginning. I fear what should be the beginning of the upswing of a 5 year rebuild will now be 2 years more. Why? Because they didn’t make the tough decisions soon enough. Now they will not have a lottery pick next year n a loaded class.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 21:26 pm Careful, somebody will come and suggest we trade Liberator and any other starters we’ve got left for prospects because starters are in such high demand.

I don’t think it goes that deep however he would be. 5/$100m pitcher because of age in this market

2ninr wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 18:44 pm The Cardinals are where they are because of having to pay for starting pitching. Mo is gone. The new guy is going to develope pitching. It couldn't be clearer. Not sure why these posts keep cycling thru.

Because we have major league pitchers like a bad hand of spades. One and three possibles.