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Don't know why this popped in my head, but here we go.

The Cardinals were rumoured to be in on Sean Murphy, but balked at the cost in trade and ended up signing Willson Contreras for 5 years and $87 million, plus a $5 million buyout at the end of the deal, for a total of 5 years and $92 million guaranteed. The Braves traded for Sean Murphy and extended him for 6 years and $73 million with no buyout. They also gave up 5 total players, including William Contreras. We're 3 years in at this point.

Willson Contreras has been worth 8.3 fWAR so far, an average 130 wRC+ per year, and played an average of 115 games a year. He has 2 years left on his deal. He will be 34, and 36 at the end of his deal.

Sean Murphy has been worth 7.8 fWAR so far, an average of 101 wRC+ per year, and played an average of 91 games per year. He has 3 years left on his deal. He will be 31 next year, and 33 at the end of his deal. Also, they gave up William Contreras. who has been better than both players in that time. He has been worth 14.9 fWar so far, an average of 124 wRC+, and played an average of 149 games per year. He's also only going to be 28 next season. I haven't followed the other 4 players they gave up to get him, so no clue if they have been a loss for the Braves as well.

There was a whole lot of uproar around here when we pivoted to Contreras, especially during first year of that deal, when Murphy looked like he was an MVP. However, Contreras has been a much steadier presence for the Cardinals, despite moving to 1B, and William Contreras has gone on to be one of the best catchers in the game. He was a very bad catcher when Atlanta traded for him, but the Brewers unlocked something in him and he has been great defensively. But I know we heard a lot here about how bad of a deal the Cardinals were going to get and how much they would regret not trading for Murphy. I don't think it looks that way right now.

Is there any way that the Braves can be considered to have made the better decision between them and the Cardinals? I guess Willson can tank the next two years and Murphy can go back to being as good as he was the first year with the Braves over the next three. But Murphy is looking kind of like a dud at this point, and they also gave up one of the best young catchers in the game to get him. That fact alone, I think, makes them losers here, no matter what happens the next two years. Oh yea, also, the Braves have won a total of 1 more playoff game than the Cardinals in this time.

I was looking at this a few months ago.

Cards won this by a mile.

Is it still a fair/accurate comparison since WC doesn’t play catcher anymore?

First, we know C take a beating that can negatively impact the rest of their play compared to 1B and second, idr WAR having full appreciation for catcher value in the past (maybe it’s improved).

Brewers came out on top that seems obvious.

This is why the Brewers have done well with a small budget. Smart people running the org. Hopefully the Cards are now on that program. I look forward to an infield with Winn and JJ up the middle for a few seasons........

It is not over until it is over. And one is now a first baseman and not a catcher in which they were looking for.

Considering that the Brewers only gave up Esteury "You can't steal first base" Ruiz (0.7 fWAR in four ML seasons) and got William Contreras, Joel Payamps, and Justin Yeager, the Cardinals should have been in the middle of that rather than signing the other Contreras.

I still do not know what the A's thought they were doing there.

OldRed wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:10 am It is not over until it is over. And one is now a first baseman and not a catcher in which they were looking for.

But I will say that Contreras is still providing the value that we paid for, by being a pretty good first baseman.

Murphy is now... basically...an expensive back up catcher now that Drake Baldwin is killing it on a rookie deal.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 09:47 am Don't know why this popped in my head, but here we go.

The Cardinals were rumoured to be in on Sean Murphy, but balked at the cost in trade and ended up signing Willson Contreras for 5 years and $87 million, plus a $5 million buyout at the end of the deal, for a total of 5 years and $92 million guaranteed. The Braves traded for Sean Murphy and extended him for 6 years and $73 million with no buyout. They also gave up 5 total players, including William Contreras. We're 3 years in at this point.

Just an fyi, but the total value of the contract is $87.5M. His buyout is already included in that. Contreras only made $10M in the first year of the contract.

yeah, I well remember that scenario. We were also supposedly interested in one of the 3 Blue Jay catchers. The one I wanted (at the time) was the youngest of the 3, Gabe Moreno. He was subsequently traded to the Diamondbacks.
His 2025 numbers were
.285
.353
.786
9 HR
40 RBI

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:13 am Considering that the Brewers only gave up Esteury "You can't steal first base" Ruiz (0.7 fWAR in four ML seasons) and got William Contreras, Joel Payamps, and Justin Yeager, the Cardinals should have been in the middle of that rather than signing the other Contreras.

I still do not know what the A's thought they were doing there.

The question for me, though, is whether the Cardinals could have made the younger Contreras into the catcher that he is today like the Brewers did? We haven't exactly been known for our development, so I am not sure he would have been as good. Of course, if that were the case, then we could have moved him to first or DH like his brother, and he still would be prety (bleep) good, younger, and cheaper. We do seem to be pretty decent at developing catchers, though, so who knows?

But anyway, could the Cardinals have gotten into that mix somehow?

I was the ONLY person on the forum at the time who argued against trading for Murphy and for signing Contreras.
Every person without exception disagreed with me at the time.
Obviously, I was correct.

Melville wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 17:46 pm I was the ONLY person on the forum at the time who argued against trading for Murphy and for signing Contreras.
Every person without exception disagreed with me at the time.
Obviously, I was correct.

Hey! Don’t forget about me!

OldRed wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:10 am It is not over until it is over. And one is now a first baseman and not a catcher in which they were looking for.

Atlanta: they would love to do a do over and keep William Conteras.
Cardinals: though Willson is now at 1b, they are probably very happy they didn’t TRADE prospects for SM, and have an oft-injured catcher for three more years blocking catching prospects. And Willson moved to 1b partially for that reason and has been a team player since day one.

Now can Murphy be a stud the next 3-4 years in ATL? Sure. But even if he is, I doubt the cards are losing sleep over it.

Lastly, Mo has a spotty track record with trades. Maybe it’s best we didn’t trade for SM with Mo still at the helm…

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:16 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:13 am Considering that the Brewers only gave up Esteury "You can't steal first base" Ruiz (0.7 fWAR in four ML seasons) and got William Contreras, Joel Payamps, and Justin Yeager, the Cardinals should have been in the middle of that rather than signing the other Contreras.

I still do not know what the A's thought they were doing there.

The question for me, though, is whether the Cardinals could have made the younger Contreras into the catcher that he is today like the Brewers did? We haven't exactly been known for our development, so I am not sure he would have been as good. Of course, if that were the case, then we could have moved him to first or DH like his brother, and he still would be prety (drat) good, younger, and cheaper. We do seem to be pretty decent at developing catchers, though, so who knows?

But anyway, could the Cardinals have gotten into that mix somehow?

We draft and promote a lot of C to MLB, it we haven’t developed an Allstar C or even close to one since Yadi.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 19:48 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:10 am It is not over until it is over. And one is now a first baseman and not a catcher in which they were looking for.

Atlanta: they would love to do a do over and keep William Conteras.
Cardinals: though Willson is now at 1b, they are probably very happy they didn’t TRADE prospects for SM, and have an oft-injured catcher for three more years blocking catching prospects. And Willson moved to 1b partially for that reason and has been a team player since day one.

Now can Murphy be a stud the next 3-4 years in ATL? Sure. But even if he is, I doubt the cards are losing sleep over it.

Lastly, Mo has a spotty track record with trades. Maybe it’s best we didn’t trade for SM with Mo still at the helm…

I mostly agree with you, but just to play Devils advocate, who could Mo have traded after 2022 that we would actually miss at this point? Walker? Hjerpe? Noot?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 20:39 pmWe draft and promote a lot of C to MLB, it we haven’t developed an Allstar C or even close to one since Yadi.

Okay? It's been a whole three years.