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This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future. I’m okay with bad now while building for the future as opposed to the sustained mediocrity a lot of posters like

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

I don’t either but the rotation was trash with him it can be trash without him. You may have wanted to keep him and finish next to last again I don’t care where they finish as long as they building to win instead of just sustaining mediocrity

It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

Yep.
It's a rebuild at this point.
Sad.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

You may not care about his money, but the money matters. It flavors and affects everything that happens. Everything.

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

You may not care about his money, but the money matters. It flavors and affects everything that happens. Everything.

Until a new owner comes along who is willing to be aggressive and smart and do multiple things at once at the cost of his own money. These things do happen for other teams. At least we can hope and wish.

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

They haven’t tried to compete for the World Series in a long time at least now they are at last building to hopefully be able to compete for a World Series. I’ve been saying I’m on board as long as long have a clear direction. If they were trying to win then try to win go for it if they are going to rebuild fine rebuild both Are clear directions that can lead to good things mos sustain mediocrity just compete hope to squeak in and then pray for miracles approach was stupid hopeless and lead to the collapse the team is now in. Bloom as a clear direction I can get on board with that

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:02 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

They traded an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat and hasn’t helped the cardinals win anything who is getting. Paid like an ace and doesn’t pitch like an ace what expertly were you expecting to get for him? Lol

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

Yeah sorry, just getting a couple of fringe prospects doesn't get me excited.

Youth, combined with the guys we've pulled away from Cleveland and Seattle to develop our pitching have me optimistic. It's not a slam dunk move, but trades for younger guys rarely are.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:02 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

They traded an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat and hasn’t helped the cardinals win anything who is getting. Paid like an ace and doesn’t pitch like an ace what expertly were you expecting to get for him? Lol

Hope somebody told Sonny that Boston gets hot in the summer too. Never saw a guy sweat as bad as he did. Good pitcher though but the trade needed to be made in this instance.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:02 pm

hofmann13 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:57 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:56 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:54 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

So what? If they kept him they would finish next to last again at least now they have prospects who may help them win in the future instead of an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat of St. Louis and wasn’t going to help them win now or in the future

Well, if you thought they had a lousy rotation before the trade.
Well, just look at it after the trade.
I don't give a rats a z z about dEwitt's money.

Do you care about years of control?

control of what exactly. Boston gave up on these 2 for a reason. One looks like a Pallante that can't stay healthy, and the other has no control and hasn't graduated A ball at age 22. Projects like that are a dime a dozen. Its fine to trade a Fermin type or a backup catcher once in a while to take a flyer on one, but you can't expect them to move the needle of your future at all. Odds are better than even that Clarke never produces significant MLB WAR.

They traded an old pitcher who can’t pitch in the heat and hasn’t helped the cardinals win anything who is getting. Paid like an ace and doesn’t pitch like an ace what expertly were you expecting to get for him? Lol

He pitched deep enough and well enought to win 14 games, which is better than anyone else on either the Cardinals or a lot of other teams. No he's not an ACE but that is a contribution that we aren't going to get now. To me that's worth an incremental $20M of Bill's money that ISN"T going to get reinvested in someone better than Gray. I hope Bloom proves me wrong but I'm waiting.

The $20M to get thru the season with a few less innings of boo-birds, and Gray's experience to lend to whatever AAA pitchers we do promote is still worth something. If he's good in Fenway or on the road, Boston got a huge bargain.