Okay, So No Donovan, No Gray and No Arenado--Is that about it?

[Bully4you]

If that's the plan this team will not even compete with the Pirates.
Maybe it will be a toss-up with Colorado as to who maintains the worst record.
Absolutely no reason to watch in 2026.
I guess this is what a rebuild looks like though.
Have to hope some of the young guys finally do something.
But what if that doesn't happen?
Oh, that will just take us to multiyear rebuild(s)......

[cardstatman]

Agreed. If they trade Donovan and Gray, then it is a total rebuild situation and a last place team in 2026 and likely 2027, too.

No chance for the playoffs.

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Romero
• trade Alcala
• trade King
• trade Donovan
• trade Nootbar

All returns would be players making a debut in 2027 or beyond.

C Pages
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Gorman
LF Walker
CF Scott
RF Church
DH Herrera
Bench Crooks, Fermin, Torres, Saggese
SP Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy, Leahy, Mathews
RRP Svanson, O'Brien, Graceffo, Fernandez, Granillo, Roycroft
LRP Raquet, Watson?

Players in waiting: Bernal, Prieto, Jordan, Mendoza, Josh Baez, Mautz, Henderson, Hansen, Moreno, Gastellum, Love, Heredia

Fans come to the park and see lots of scoring... at least by one of the teams.

[ramfandan]

Agreed. If they trade Donovan and Gray, then it is a total rebuild situation and a last place team in 2026 and likely 2027, too.

No chance for the playoffs.

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Romero
• trade Alcala
• trade King
• trade Donovan
• trade Nootbar

All returns would be players making a debut in 2027 or beyond.

C Pages
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Gorman
LF Walker
CF Scott
RF Church
DH Herrera
Bench Crooks, Fermin, Torres, Saggese
SP Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy, Leahy, Mathews
RRP Svanson, O'Brien, Graceffo, Fernandez, Granillo, Roycroft
LRP Raquet, Watson?

Players in waiting: Bernal, Prieto, Jordan, Mendoza, Josh Baez, Mautz, Henderson, Hansen, Moreno, Gastellum, Love, Heredia

Regarding the 2027 or beyond list , for me I do not see Pages as the starting catcher moving forward
Do not think Church gets consideratiion . I see Josua Baez becoming a regular OF.
For starting pitching , you forgot LIam Doyle , our No. 1 pick from 2025 Another pitcher was his college teammate at Tenn. Tanner Franklin the fireballer should either be in our rotation (they are trying him there first ) but certainly in the bullpen as late inning reliever maybe even closer.

[mattmitchl44]

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Donovan

^This.

The Cardinals are in a spot where they need to take two steps back before they can take three or more steps forward in coming years.

If they don't, they just keep walking down a dead end alley that ends at "high level mediocrity."

[cardstatman]

Agreed. If they trade Donovan and Gray, then it is a total rebuild situation and a last place team in 2026 and likely 2027, too.

No chance for the playoffs.

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Romero
• trade Alcala
• trade King
• trade Donovan
• trade Nootbar

All returns would be players making a debut in 2027 or beyond.

C Pages
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Gorman
LF Walker
CF Scott
RF Church
DH Herrera
Bench Crooks, Fermin, Torres, Saggese
SP Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy, Leahy, Mathews
RRP Svanson, O'Brien, Graceffo, Fernandez, Granillo, Roycroft
LRP Raquet, Watson?

Players in waiting: Bernal, Prieto, Jordan, Mendoza, Josh Baez, Mautz, Henderson, Hansen, Moreno, Gastellum, Love, Heredia

Regarding the 2027 or beyond list , for me I do not see Pages as the starting catcher moving forward
Do not think Church gets consideratiion . I see Josua Baez becoming a regular OF.
For starting pitching , you forgot LIam Doyle , our No. 1 pick from 2025 Another pitcher was his college teammate at Tenn. Tanner Franklin the fireballer should either be in our rotation (they are trying him there first ) but certainly in the bullpen as late inning reliever maybe even closer.

I agree with you. I was listing the opening day 2026 roster from what we have remaining after the bloodshed. It would get better in 2027 and 2028.

Players in waiting are players making a debut later in 2026.

[ecleme22]

Cards will sign at least two starters and probably an OFer. All one year deals.

[Bully4you]

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Donovan

^This.

The Cardinals are in a spot where they need to take two steps back before they can take three or more steps forward in coming years.

If they don't, they just keep walking down a dead end alley that ends at "high level mediocrity."

Fine.
Sounds like you're going to get your way.
This will most likely be a complete rebuild.
So, what happens when these prospects they acquire, along with the current crop, don't pan out?
Then what?
Perpetual rebuild.
The franchise already took a massive hit the past few seasons.
They might just run it to the ground.
FYI, striking gold when it comes to prospects is hard.
Probably more unlikely than likely.
We have to hope our scouts are smarter than theirs.
Not sure that's the case.

[mattmitchl44]

Fine.
Sounds like you're going to get your way.
This will most likely be a complete rebuild.
So, what happens when these prospects they acquire, along with the current crop, don't pan out?
Then what?
Perpetual rebuild.
The franchise already took a massive hit the past few seasons.
They might just run it to the ground.
FYI, striking gold when it comes to prospects is hard.
Probably more unlikely than likely.
We have to hope our scouts are smarter than theirs.
Not sure that's the case.

No one disagrees that the Cardinals organization HAS TO get better at identifying, obtaining, and developing prospects.

But, really, there is no alternative.

They just can't compete with the spending of the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. unless they are about a Top 5 organization in terms of developing and delivering cost controlled young talent to the ML team.

So, however improbable one might think that is, when every other path to really being competitive is impossible, that which is just improbable must the truth.

[scoutyjones2]

brewers...anybody see what they do

Tampa?

[45s]

If that's the plan this team will not even compete with the Pirates.
Maybe it will be a toss-up with Colorado as to who maintains the worst record.
Absolutely no reason to watch in 2026.
I guess this is what a rebuild looks like though.
Have to hope some of the young guys finally do something.
But what if that doesn't happen?
Oh, that will just take us to multiyear rebuild(s)......

A thorough rebuild will always take multiple years…

and if a club is not competing for the division….it does not matter who they are competing with..

[Bully4you]

Fine.
Sounds like you're going to get your way.
This will most likely be a complete rebuild.
So, what happens when these prospects they acquire, along with the current crop, don't pan out?
Then what?
Perpetual rebuild.
The franchise already took a massive hit the past few seasons.
They might just run it to the ground.
FYI, striking gold when it comes to prospects is hard.
Probably more unlikely than likely.
We have to hope our scouts are smarter than theirs.
Not sure that's the case.

No one disagrees that the Cardinals organization HAS TO get better at identifying, obtaining, and developing prospects.

But, really, there is no alternative.

They just can't compete with the spending of the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. unless they are about a Top 5 organization in terms of developing and delivering cost controlled young talent to the ML team.

So, however improbable one might think that is, when every other path to really being competitive is impossible, that which is just improbable must the truth.

Let's just not fool everyone into thinking this will be some 2 year project.
With a plan such as yours and the current state of the team, it will be much longer.

[Bully4you]

If that's the plan this team will not even compete with the Pirates.
Maybe it will be a toss-up with Colorado as to who maintains the worst record.
Absolutely no reason to watch in 2026.
I guess this is what a rebuild looks like though.
Have to hope some of the young guys finally do something.
But what if that doesn't happen?
Oh, that will just take us to multiyear rebuild(s)......

A thorough rebuild will always take multiple years…

and if a club is not competing for the division….it does not matter who they are competing with..

Well, that's what I essentially said candy.
If they opt to trade Gray and Donovan, then it's a complete overhaul.
I don't know that they need a complete overhaul.
But whatever.

[rockondlouie]

Agreed. If they trade Donovan and Gray, then it is a total rebuild situation and a last place team in 2026 and likely 2027, too.

No chance for the playoffs.

So they might as well...

• eat all of Arenado's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Contrera's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• eat all of Gray's contract and trade him to get the best return (if he allows it)
• trade Romero
• trade Alcala
• trade King
• trade Donovan
• trade Nootbar

All returns would be players making a debut in 2027 or beyond.

C Pages
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Gorman
LF Walker
CF Scott
RF Church
DH Herrera
Bench Crooks, Fermin, Torres, Saggese
SP Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy, Leahy, Mathews
RRP Svanson, O'Brien, Graceffo, Fernandez, Granillo, Roycroft
LRP Raquet, Watson?

Players in waiting: Bernal, Prieto, Jordan, Mendoza, Josh Baez, Mautz, Henderson, Hansen, Moreno, Gastellum, Love, Heredia

Fans come to the park and see lots of scoring... at least by one of the teams.

No way Pages is still here in 2027, he should be gone this offseason or mid year.

Gorman has a ton to prove before you list him at 3rd base in 2027.

If that's our 2027 OF, then I agree w/you we're in deep do-do.

Same w/that starting rotation........Pallante?

He better be long gone!

And where's Doyle?

That roster won't make the playoffs, looks like a sub .500 team.

[ecleme22]

Fine.
Sounds like you're going to get your way.
This will most likely be a complete rebuild.
So, what happens when these prospects they acquire, along with the current crop, don't pan out?
Then what?
Perpetual rebuild.
The franchise already took a massive hit the past few seasons.
They might just run it to the ground.
FYI, striking gold when it comes to prospects is hard.
Probably more unlikely than likely.
We have to hope our scouts are smarter than theirs.
Not sure that's the case.

No one disagrees that the Cardinals organization HAS TO get better at identifying, obtaining, and developing prospects.

But, really, there is no alternative.

They just can't compete with the spending of the Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, etc. unless they are about a Top 5 organization in terms of developing and delivering cost controlled young talent to the ML team.

So, however improbable one might think that is, when every other path to really being competitive is impossible, that which is just improbable must the truth.

Ironically, the successful big market teams ALSO place a lot of importance on their farm system.

So at the very least, the Cards have to be good at that aspect of organization.

Funny how if the Cards had better talent evaluation, they never would've traded Gallen, Sandy or Randy, and 2020-2025 would've looked a lot different.

[45s]

If that's the plan this team will not even compete with the Pirates.
Maybe it will be a toss-up with Colorado as to who maintains the worst record.
Absolutely no reason to watch in 2026.
I guess this is what a rebuild looks like though.
Have to hope some of the young guys finally do something.
But what if that doesn't happen?
Oh, that will just take us to multiyear rebuild(s)......

A thorough rebuild will always take multiple years…

and if a club is not competing for the division….it does not matter who they are competing with..

Well, that's what I essentially said candy.
If they opt to trade Gray and Donovan, then it's a complete overhaul.
I don't know that they need a complete overhaul.
But whatever.

Sonny Gray is 36…..and making more money than his performance justifies

Donovan is a nice player but will walk before the club is ready to win…

Really not much reason to keep them…

[Bully4you]

If that's the plan this team will not even compete with the Pirates.
Maybe it will be a toss-up with Colorado as to who maintains the worst record.
Absolutely no reason to watch in 2026.
I guess this is what a rebuild looks like though.
Have to hope some of the young guys finally do something.
But what if that doesn't happen?
Oh, that will just take us to multiyear rebuild(s)......

A thorough rebuild will always take multiple years…

and if a club is not competing for the division….it does not matter who they are competing with..

Well, that's what I essentially said candy.
If they opt to trade Gray and Donovan, then it's a complete overhaul.
I don't know that they need a complete overhaul.
But whatever.

Sonny Gray is 36…..and making more money than his performance justifies

Donovan is a nice player but will walk before the club is ready to win…

Really not much reason to keep them…

Yeah well, they better draft their (bleep) off.
And they better get something decent for Donovan then.
Even if they do, it's last place for multiple years under this method.