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Cardinalss4Ever wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 23:05 pm Not sure I buy 24 lol. Gotta be a typo on their part. Also, didn't Flaherty also accept his QO?

Youboughtit wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 22:30 pm Top 25 free agents and their contract projections according to Baseball America:

1) Kyle Tucker - 11 years / $360 million
2) Bo Bichette - 8 / 240
3) Framber Valdez - 7 / 220
4) Alex Bregman - 6 / 180
5) Pete Alonso - 7 / 175
6) Dylan Cease - 5 / 160
7) Shane Bieber - 5 / 150
Cody Bellinger - 6 / 175
9) Gleyber Torres - 7 / 160
10) Kyle Schwarber - 3 / 110
11) Edwin Diaz - 6 / 125
12) Munetaka Murakami - 7 / 140
13) Trent Grisham - 5 / 130
14) Trevor Story - 4 / 110
15) Michael King - 4 / 110
16) Eugenio Suarez - 3 / 75
17) Kazuma Okamoto - 5 / 85
18) Josh Naylor - 6 / 120
19) Ranger Suarez - 3 / 75
20) Devin Williams - 4 / 75
21) Brandon Woodruff - 1 / 27.5
22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45
23) Jack Flaherty - 3 / 72
24) Ryan Helsley - 4 / 170
25) Lucas Giolito - 3 / 65

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 00:58 am

Youboughtit wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 22:30 pm Top 25 free agents and their contract projections according to Baseball America:

1) Kyle Tucker - 11 years / $360 million
2) Bo Bichette - 8 / 240
3) Framber Valdez - 7 / 220
4) Alex Bregman - 6 / 180
5) Pete Alonso - 7 / 175
6) Dylan Cease - 5 / 160
7) Shane Bieber - 5 / 150
Cody Bellinger - 6 / 175
9) Gleyber Torres - 7 / 160
10) Kyle Schwarber - 3 / 110
11) Edwin Diaz - 6 / 125
12) Munetaka Murakami - 7 / 140
13) Trent Grisham - 5 / 130
14) Trevor Story - 4 / 110
15) Michael King - 4 / 110
16) Eugenio Suarez - 3 / 75
17) Kazuma Okamoto - 5 / 85
18) Josh Naylor - 6 / 120
19) Ranger Suarez - 3 / 75
20) Devin Williams - 4 / 75
21) Brandon Woodruff - 1 / 27.5
22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45
23) Jack Flaherty - 3 / 72
24) Ryan Helsley - 4 / 170
25) Lucas Giolito - 3 / 65

Were they drunk when they made those projections?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:27 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

So you're going to ignore 2025 for Gallen but use 2025 as the sole data point of Gray? Got it.

Last 3 years of fWAR for each:

Gray
2025 - 3.6
2024 - 3.8
2023 - 5.4 (2nd in CYA)

Gallen
2025 - 1.1
2024 - 2.8
2023 - 5.2 (3rd in CYA)

Gray has literally been better each of the last 3 years... tell me again how Gallen is better? Who cares about 2019? (Btw Sonny finished ahead of Gallen in CYA that year too - 7th vs. no votes)

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:33 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:27 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

So you're going to ignore 2025 for Gallen but use 2025 as the sole data point of Gray? Got it.

Last 3 years of fWAR for each:

Gray
2025 - 3.6
2024 - 3.8
2023 - 5.4 (2nd in CYA)

Gallen
2025 - 1.1
2024 - 2.8
2023 - 5.2 (3rd in CYA)

Gray has literally been better each of the last 3 years... tell me again how Gallen is better? Who cares about 2019? (Btw Sonny finished ahead of Gallen in CYA that year too - 7th vs. no votes)

YES!

I'm NOT going to judge Gallen on one down season (2025) when he's poster SIX consecutive seasons where he was a top of MLB starter.

And again, YES I'm going to use Gray's AGE (not his stats).

Thirty year old FOTR starter -vs- a 36 year old near the end starter.

Which do you want for the Re-Build?

How can you not see this?

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:34 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

Putting Gray vs. Gallen aside for now - let's call them comparable right now.

If they eat a bunch of money to move Gray then plow most of the savings back into Gallen, what did they really accomplish?? Basically back to even for 2026.

Teams are going to make the Cards eat Gray money down to market value - i.e. no surplus value. They're only going to net mid level wild cards for zero surplus value. Not high end prospects.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:36 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:33 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:27 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 11:04 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 08:51 am 22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45

I'd do that in a NY minute if S. Gray is dealt.

Assuming they're eating around $10-15m to move Gray (thereby saving $25-30m), wouldn't it make more sense just to keep Gray at that point than turning around and spending most of that savings into a lesser pitcher?

No walt (and Z. Gallen is NOT a lesser pitcher).

Sure he had a down 2025 but prior to that from 2019-2024 he posted: 143 GS/3.29 ERA/1.13 WHiP/9.8 SO9 and three Top 10 CY Young seasons or ACE stuff.

Gallen is going into his age 30 season and is a FOTR starter C. Bloom could build the starting rotation around, Gray is going into his age 36 season and near the end!

So you're going to ignore 2025 for Gallen but use 2025 as the sole data point of Gray? Got it.

Last 3 years of fWAR for each:

Gray
2025 - 3.6
2024 - 3.8
2023 - 5.4 (2nd in CYA)

Gallen
2025 - 1.1
2024 - 2.8
2023 - 5.2 (3rd in CYA)

Gray has literally been better each of the last 3 years... tell me again how Gallen is better? Who cares about 2019? (Btw Sonny finished ahead of Gallen in CYA that year too - 7th vs. no votes)

YES!

I'm NOT going to judge Gallen on one down season (2025) when he's poster SIX consecutive seasons where he was a top of MLB starter.

And again, YES I'm going to use Gray's AGE (not his stats).

Thirty year old FOTR starter -vs- a 36 year old near the end starter.

Which do you want for the Re-Build?

How can you not see this?

2 years for Gallen isn't going to do us any good for the rebuild either. He'll be gone before the rebuild is done. You'd be spending a bunch of money to go from 75 wins to 82 wins, still miss the playoffs, and get worse draft picks.