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icon wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:15 pm Greene is also relatively green compared with Snell. He looked rattled out there, and to be frank, was tossing meatballs. That slider he threw to T. Hernandez for the 3-run HR was your classic cement mixer. Up. Gone.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:41 pm

icon wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:15 pm Greene is also relatively green compared with Snell. He looked rattled out there, and to be frank, was tossing meatballs. That slider he threw to T. Hernandez for the 3-run HR was your classic cement mixer. Up. Gone.

But isn’t a Greene the absolute ideal outcome that blooms plan could produce? And yet he still gets beat by a somewhat above average vet with a veteran offense behind him.

How is anything a farm system can produce ever going to beat that. You need the right vets to have a chance VS LA.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:41 pm

icon wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:15 pm Greene is also relatively green compared with Snell. He looked rattled out there, and to be frank, was tossing meatballs. That slider he threw to T. Hernandez for the 3-run HR was your classic cement mixer. Up. Gone.

But isn’t a Greene the absolute ideal outcome that blooms plan could produce? And yet he still gets beat by a somewhat above average vet with a veteran offense behind him.

How is anything a farm system can produce ever going to beat that. You need the right vets to have a chance VS LA.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 23:11 pm Hunter Greene meets the definition of an Elite Ace. 4.4 War in 19 starts - if he'd been healthy all year he would have been a CY favorite.

Until he ran into the LA Dodgers lineup. Blake Snell is a 1.3 WAR pitcher this year. 2 WAR last year in a more complete season. He's not better than Greene by any measure. But he didn't face nearly as challenging of a lineup.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:37 am How many HOFers on that team- Kershaw Freeman Ohtani?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:37 am How many HOFers on that team- Kershaw Freeman Ohtani?

Yep - we need to target some WS experience - both manager And a player or 2, by 2027.

russellhammond wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:35 am I think you have that backwards....elite hitting beats good pitching. Nothing about Greene screams "elite", though he is quite good. The Dodgers however, with Ohtani, Freeman, Betts, et al, are very much an elite hitting team.

jcgmoi wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 07:11 am Take the results of one game and extend it to a team's efforts to get relevant again. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess you don't have to watch any more of the playoffs, you've already cracked the code.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 07:03 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:35 am I think you have that backwards....elite hitting beats good pitching. Nothing about Greene screams "elite", though he is quite good. The Dodgers however, with Ohtani, Freeman, Betts, et al, are very much an elite hitting team.

Agree with you on the Dodgers lineup.

But Greene - 2.75/2.76 ERA past 2 years, 11 K/9ip.
6.2 WAR last year. on pace for 7 WAR this year if he'd made 30 starts. What is the cutoff for Elite? Can't be much higher than 7?

Yeah I'd take off a few points because he's never made 30 starts. But he's a lot closer to elite than he is to any of the Cards pitchers level. Who in our system projects to be better than Greene?

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 07:58 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 07:03 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:35 am I think you have that backwards....elite hitting beats good pitching. Nothing about Greene screams "elite", though he is quite good. The Dodgers however, with Ohtani, Freeman, Betts, et al, are very much an elite hitting team.

Agree with you on the Dodgers lineup.

But Greene - 2.75/2.76 ERA past 2 years, 11 K/9ip.
6.2 WAR last year. on pace for 7 WAR this year if he'd made 30 starts. What is the cutoff for Elite? Can't be much higher than 7?

Yeah I'd take off a few points because he's never made 30 starts. But he's a lot closer to elite than he is to any of the Cards pitchers level. Who in our system projects to be better than Greene?

7 ip, 1 h, 1 er, 2 bb, 12 k

2.33 ip, 4 h, 5 er, 4 bb, 3 k

Those are Hunter Greene's, respectively, 1st and 2nd starts in September. Team 1: NY Mets. Team 2: 'Oakland' As.

His 3rd start?

9 ip, 1 h, 0 er, 1 bb,9 k --- versus the Chicago Cubs.

When he shat the bed vs a 2nd division team a few weeks ago, should Cincy have altered their rotation to avoid having him face a post-season club in his next start...even though he'd thoroughly dominated a different (then) post-season club in his previous start?

So, what conclusions should we draw from all of this, other than to say Greene stumbled in his first post-season game?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 07:03 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 06:35 am I think you have that backwards....elite hitting beats good pitching. Nothing about Greene screams "elite", though he is quite good. The Dodgers however, with Ohtani, Freeman, Betts, et al, are very much an elite hitting team.

Agree with you on the Dodgers lineup.

But Greene - 2.75/2.76 ERA past 2 years, 11 K/9ip.
6.2 WAR last year. on pace for 7 WAR this year if he'd made 30 starts. What is the cutoff for Elite? Can't be much higher than 7?

Yeah I'd take off a few points because he's never made 30 starts. But he's a lot closer to elite than he is to any of the Cards pitchers level. Who in our system projects to be better than Greene?