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Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

opti mist wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

Compare them to other lineups. Don’t accept (bleep)

There is a point where the game will be diminished and irrelevant if consistent offense is allowed to continually decline

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:00 pm There is a point where the game will be diminished and irrelevant if consistent offense is allowed to continually decline

Agreed, however, how do you fix it? I get the impression it’s a problem down to the youngest, lowest levels.

opti mist wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

Just some random numbers.

Year 2000 - BA - .270 -- HR - 5693 - OPS - .782 - K's - 31,356--- Hits -45,246
Year 2012 - BA - .255 -- HR - 4934 - OPS - .724 -K's - 46,426--- Hits -42,063
Year 2025 - BA - .245 -- HR - 5650 - OPS - .719 - K's - 40,365--- Hits -40,140

WeeVikes wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:05 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:00 pm There is a point where the game will be diminished and irrelevant if consistent offense is allowed to continually decline

Agreed, however, how do you fix it? I get the impression it’s a problem down to the youngest, lowest levels.

They’re only teaching slug and long ball. Think of all the lower skilled in 2025 as Rob Deers….higher skilled Dave Kingmans….and the few elites as Bonds….Pujols
That’s MLB in 2025
How many guys do you see choke up on the bat? Slap hit to opposite field? It’s the approach and style of hitting not so much the pitching

kscardsfan wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:10 pm

opti mist wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

Just some random numbers.

Year 2000 - BA - .270 -- HR - 5693 - OPS - .782 - K's - 31,356--- Hits -45,246
Year 2012 - BA - .255 -- HR - 4934 - OPS - .724 -K's - 46,426--- Hits -42,063
Year 2025 - BA - .245 -- HR - 5650 - OPS - .719 - K's - 40,365--- Hits -40,140

2000 you had Roids and elite black athletes still in the game
2025 no roids no elite black athletes

Move the mound back 2 feet

It was a lot easier to hit when you faced the starter 3 or 4 times in a game instead of 1 or 2 then a parade of high octane throwing relievers with high spin rate stuff come in. Also it used to be a starter wouldn’t throw max out every pitch they would pitch lower then dial it up when they really need to because they knew they had to go deep into games now they go max effort knowing they are only going 5 or 6
Innings.

hmoss859 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:16 pm Move the mound back 2 feet

Quickly delete this post before Manfred reads!

Pitch clock and banning the shift has been good for the game

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:18 pm It was a lot easier to hit when you faced the starter 3 or 4 times in a game instead of 1 or 2 then a parade of high octane throwing relievers with high spin rate stuff come in. Also it used to be a starter wouldn’t throw max out every pitch they would pitch lower then dial it up when they really need to because they knew they had to go deep into games now they go max effort knowing they are only going 5 or 6
Innings.

Does your comment include the Cards BP
Cards SP (MPH)
Gray 92
Fedde 91
Mikolas 93
Pallante 95
Libby 93
So the entire league is all these high 90’s /100mph and the home team couldn’t find ONE for SP

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:12 pm

WeeVikes wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:05 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:00 pm There is a point where the game will be diminished and irrelevant if consistent offense is allowed to continually decline

Agreed, however, how do you fix it? I get the impression it’s a problem down to the youngest, lowest levels.

They’re only teaching slug and long ball. Think of all the lower skilled in 2025 as Rob Deers….higher skilled Dave Kingmans….and the few elites as Bonds….Pujols
That’s MLB in 2025
How many guys do you see choke up on the bat? Slap hit to opposite field? It’s the approach and style of hitting not so much the pitching

Well, I will give the speed at which pitchers now throw some credit, however, I tend to agree with you.

I have no idea how things are in youth and high school ball these days, but I have to think “grip and rip” players are being scouted and signed. Is that what they’re being encouraged to do as kids? And I wonder how much damage “select” ball is doing? Things are certainly not set up to easily allow a lot of kids to play a lot of baseball these days, and on the flip side of that, I wonder if the kids who do play select ball get burned out.

Ah, I’m getting old…

opti mist wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

My view is without Walker and Gorman consistently being black holes and playing poor defense, we could’ve won a wildcard with replacement level players in their place. With as bad as our starting pitching was, that is telling.

One thing remains constant, pitching and good defense wins. Go big on fixing the rotation, bring up Wetherholt and grab a RH outfielder (who can play defense too) and a couple of decent role player types and the team can contend.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 20:27 pm

opti mist wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm Seriously, look at MLB averages anymore. Very few hit .300, which used to be a marker. Sure, there are a lot of HRs but the swing and miss rate is increased. You read players quotes about how good the pitching is, and I am starting to believe them. Maybe the new goal is .250 for average. If this is true, how does this affect your view of the Cardinal hitters?

Opti

My view is without Walker and Gorman consistently being black holes and playing poor defense, we could’ve won a wildcard with replacement level players in their place. With as bad as our starting pitching was, that is telling.

One thing remains constant, pitching and good defense wins. Go big on fixing the rotation, bring up Wetherholt and grab a RH outfielder (who can play defense too) and a couple of decent role player types and the team can contend.

Come on Corn…….we had to watch them ALL YEAR to see how bad they were…..we owed it to them

If they did ABS for every single pitch, the hitters would benefit tremendously.
The majority of bad calls go in favor or the pitchers. Hitters have it tough and when a bad call is made against a hitter, they can't predict the strike zone as well.
I've always felt a perfectly consistent zone would allow the hitters to be more selective and pitchers to be more inclined to challenge the strike zone.