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At the end, he made a point to acknowledge and thank TLR.

What did he thank TLR for?

He thanked him for showing him how to be a winner.

Let that sink in.

That is how you establish a winning culture from the manager seat.

We need to find our next winning leader for our dugout. We are missing that badly.

#culturematters

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 19:21 pm At the end, he made a point to acknowledge and thank TLR.

What did he thank TLR for?

He thanked him for showing him how to be a winner.

Let that sink in.

That is how you establish a winning culture from the manager seat.

We need to find our next winning leader for our dugout. We are missing that badly.

#culturematters

+1

Is this horse dead yet? A bunch of us have been beating it for multiple seasons.... sigh. Ownership is so lame if they don't clear out the manager after this season. But they probably won't.

IIRC, LaRussa tried to talk Renteria out of going to Boston as a FA. Was honest with him and felt ER would struggle with the bigger media market in Boston. Never really worked out for Renteria after leaving here for Boston. Maybe there’s more to this story.

Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 19:39 pm IIRC, LaRussa tried to talk Renteria out of going to Boston as a FA. Was honest with him and felt ER would struggle with the bigger media market in Boston. Never really worked out for Renteria after leaving here for Boston. Maybe there’s more to this story.

He did have good seasons after getting traded from Boston, with Atlanta and Detroit. Also, his 05 season with Boston wasn't far off from his 04 season in St Louis. Almost the same from a offensive standpoint.

Now one thing after he left St Louis was that not many managers tried him lower in the lineup like LaRussa did. Seems like he went back to being the "quintessential" 2 slot hitter. Maybe that's part of why Renteria credits LaRussa, for recognizing his clutch gene and hitting him in an RBI slot.

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 20:00 pm

Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 19:39 pm IIRC, LaRussa tried to talk Renteria out of going to Boston as a FA. Was honest with him and felt ER would struggle with the bigger media market in Boston. Never really worked out for Renteria after leaving here for Boston. Maybe there’s more to this story.

He did have good seasons after getting traded from Boston, with Atlanta and Detroit. Also, his 05 season with Boston wasn't far off from his 04 season in St Louis. Almost the same from a offensive standpoint.

Now one thing after he left St Louis was that not many managers tried him lower in the lineup like LaRussa did. Seems like he went back to being the "quintessential" 2 slot hitter. Maybe that's part of why Renteria credits LaRussa, for recognizing his clutch gene and hitting him in an RBI slot.

Yes, a couple of good years in Atlanta. And he was named the WS MVP for the Giants in 2010.

One of my favorite Edgar stories is when he was a young player in the 1997 WS with Florida. Game 7 extra innings, winning run on base. He purposely ducks from a Charles Nagy curve ball to dare him to throw it again. Nagy did, and Renteria lined it into CF to win the World Series for the Marlins. Pretty smart play for a 20 year old.

Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

3dender wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:21 pm Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

I didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pm

3dender wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:21 pm Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

I didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

And if he’s trying to compare the two then we will see if oli wins 95 games with the cards next season like Larussa did with the cards his fifth season

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:54 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pm

3dender wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:21 pm Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

I didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

And if he’s trying to compare the two then we will see if oli wins 95 games with the cards next season like Larussa did with the cards his fifth season

Well we know Larussa won because of the stars as any great manager does and I don't know Oli myself and I have 0 experience managing a baseball team but you know what just think about the idea of Oli dropping in to manage a team full of hall of famers like the Dodgers and whipping the chains like he does here and getting all those players to pull the same direction or even a team full of stars who also have notable egos like the Padres and Oli leading them to a WS the idea kind of makes you laugh doesn't it

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 22:05 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:54 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pm

3dender wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:21 pm Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

I didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

And if he’s trying to compare the two then we will see if oli wins 95 games with the cards next season like Larussa did with the cards his fifth season

Well we know Larussa won because of the stars as any great manager does and I don't know Oli myself and I have 0 experience managing a baseball team but you know what just think about the idea of Oli dropping in to manage a team full of hall of famers like the Dodgers and whipping the chains like he does here and getting all those players to pull the same direction or even a team full of stars who also have notable egos like the Padres and Oli leading them to a WS the idea kind of makes you laugh doesn't it

Yea. You can debate olis in game management but what spoke volumes for me was when in may when the cardinals were hot and arenado said the last couple of seasons meaning 2023 and 2024 the team was coming to the park hoping things went well instead of expecting things to go well that’s a losers mentality. Larussas players say he taught them how to be winners how to grind and fight olis players say they come to the park hoping good things happen that says it all

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 19:21 pm At the end, he made a point to acknowledge and thank TLR.

What did he thank TLR for?

He thanked him for showing him how to be a winner.

Let that sink in.

That is how you establish a winning culture from the manager seat.

We need to find our next winning leader for our dugout. We are missing that badly.

#culturematters

Tony was proven and had already won a World Series when we hired him. That’s the best way to find a winner. Just hiring a young guy with no experience is taking a huge chance and almost guarantee the best case we have to wait for him to figure things out. Worst case he never will.

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pmI didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

Okay, then compare it with Tony's first four ever as a major league manager.

Look, I'm not exactly an Oli fan, but come on. It's not like he's had much to work with the last few years. And I will say that you always hear that the players really like him. And Yadi was willing to come back and sit in the dugout with him, that's gotta count for something.

Anyway, I always hear tons of criticism of the front office around here. If DeWitt is a total cheapskate, and Mo is a moron who ruined our developmental system and can't make a good deal to save his life, then what is Oli supposed to do with that? If it's as bad as people say, then I'd say Oli deserves credit for keeping the team around .500.

TLR and Duncan don't grow on trees.

I loved that era.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 22:13 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 22:05 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:54 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pm

3dender wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:21 pm Anyone wanna compare TLR's first 4 years with the Cards to Oli?

I didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

And if he’s trying to compare the two then we will see if oli wins 95 games with the cards next season like Larussa did with the cards his fifth season

Well we know Larussa won because of the stars as any great manager does and I don't know Oli myself and I have 0 experience managing a baseball team but you know what just think about the idea of Oli dropping in to manage a team full of hall of famers like the Dodgers and whipping the chains like he does here and getting all those players to pull the same direction or even a team full of stars who also have notable egos like the Padres and Oli leading them to a WS the idea kind of makes you laugh doesn't it

Yea. You can debate olis in game management but what spoke volumes for me was when in may when the cardinals were hot and arenado said the last couple of seasons meaning 2023 and 2024 the team was coming to the park hoping things went well instead of expecting things to go well that’s a losers mentality. Larussas players say he taught them how to be winners how to grind and fight olis players say they come to the park hoping good things happen that says it all

The managerial talk is always imperfect, we don't know everyone personally and we aren't in those rooms. But yeah I think Tony was a winner. I think about all the competitors on those teams (Carpenter, Molina, Rolen), the ones who you could tell they absolutely hated to lose. And, the last thing you wanted as a teammate was for Carpenter or Molina to catch a single glimpse of you not being focused or having a lackadaisical moment (ask B. Ryan). When I really think about it, Tony probably had just as big of a competitive spirit as any of those guys. Maybe even bigger. That's what probably made it all work when you hear about getting everyone to pull in the same direction. Those players wouldn't have all kept the same fire playing for a daycare center manager. Those types of players are almost a privilege. You have to be a winning organization to have those players. We question Arenado's attitude, but we never saw how Carpenter or Rolen etc would have behaved on the types of teams we've seen the last few years. But we Know Arenado hated to lose, we knew it from his Colorado days. I bet Larussa would have loved Arenado on his team. The expectations started with Larussa, and really, Jocketty had to be equally as competitive.

We just don't know whether or not Mozeliak or Oli have that same drive. TLR and Co. at least had the success to prove they did.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑25 Sep 2025 07:39 am

imadangman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2025 21:51 pmI didn't know Oli had 15+ years experience already and had managed a team with HOF players and their very strong egos to two pennants and a WS. Thanks.

Okay, then compare it with Tony's first four ever as a major league manager.

Look, I'm not exactly an Oli fan, but come on. It's not like he's had much to work with the last few years. And I will say that you always hear that the players really like him. And Yadi was willing to come back and sit in the dugout with him, that's gotta count for something.

Anyway, I always hear tons of criticism of the front office around here. If DeWitt is a total cheapskate, and Mo is a moron who ruined our developmental system and can't make a good deal to save his life, then what is Oli supposed to do with that? If it's as bad as people say, then I'd say Oli deserves credit for keeping the team around .500.

Now that's a much more astute comparison.

I'll say it again and I think you are saying as much... we don't know any of these guys personally and it's an imperfect science for fans to pinpoint what or who is the problem. And truly, we don't know Oli. He very well may be a great manager in the making. Maybe he can flip the switch with the team he's developing, I don't know. I have heard some of the positive things that are said about him.

I guess if you are telling me we are developing a team as well as a manager, I get it... but that means we've obviously fallen a LONG way from 2011. There is simply not the same pressure to win. It's either happened under Mo or it's happened under DeWitt. If you are pressing me on which narrative I want to believe, it's that DeWitt still has the competitive interest but is joined at the hip with Mo because of hackgate. So then that would mean DeWitt realized a long time ago he picked the wrong guy in Mozeliak, and now finally is his chance to leave us with Bloom instead. Remember, Luhnow got a similar understudy period before taking a named positon. Perhaps Bloom is a version of Luhnow but without the chinks Luhnow had in his character that ultimately led to his removing from the game.

I guess the only flaw in that narrative is that we are going with the idea that DeWitt somehow misjudged hiring Mozeliak, which would ultimately call DeWitt's ability to judge character into question since he knew Mo since 1995. So it may be unfair to question DeWitt in that manner, but you can hire all types of people that end up not working out for whatever reason. So it doesn't necessarily have to reflect on DeWitt in a bad way.

There's always the luck factor too. Sometimes I think about if the team didn't go on the miracle run of 2011 (and if the Braves didn't do their part) would we even look back on TLR with such adoration. For one, nobody would have referred to 2013 as "Matheny winning with TLR's team" which was a stupid statement to make anyways because look at all the young pitchers up and down the 2013 roster that were not even on the 2011 team. Was it Mozeliak winning with Luhnow's team? Anways....

We can zoom in even closer and remember the team meeting that was allegedly held in late August 2011where the players basically said let's not embarrass ourselves. Do we want to point to that meeting as the trademark of a "winning TLR team?" So now are we saying it wasn't all luck?... do we want to take it a step further and make the call that the current roster wouldn't be capable of deciding not to embarrass themselves?

See... so there's too many angles to look at and too much character to judge for us to make all these calls. I guess all we can really say again is that the championships at least prove TLR's winning culture. Oli may have it also but it's totally unproven, as of now.