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If I were going to tomorrow’s game, I give Mikolas some love, if he’s pulled mid inning.

He signed here in 2018.it will be his 202th start for STL.

Larry Jackson is at #10 at most games started with 209. So Miko is up there.

It’s no fault of his for those contract extensions. And though I don’t want him back in 2026, I’ll tip my cap to his longevity in the uniform.

I’ll tip my cap to him and mo with a glad you’re gone

Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Thanks for the analysis. MO shot himself in the foot with this late career extensions to Carp and Mikolas. At some point, it appeared to be laziness in keeping a player instead of trying to find an upgrade for similar money. Mikolas overall as your analysis suggests was fine. But, why give him a raise the last 2 years. If they wanted to extend him, a 20% cut for each of the extended years would have made more sense and looked better. It is not a shot at Mikolas, it is just reality...

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

The problem with today's dollar is not that it's worth only 50 cents. It is that $1 million is now worth $500k.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:10 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Thanks for the analysis. MO shot himself in the foot with this late career extensions to Carp and Mikolas. At some point, it appeared to be laziness in keeping a player instead of trying to find an upgrade for similar money. Mikolas overall as your analysis suggests was fine. But, why give him a raise the last 2 years. If they wanted to extend him, a 20% cut for each of the extended years would have made more sense and looked better. It is not a shot at Mikolas, it is just reality...

It was so weird why Mo would extend Miko in spring training of the 2023 season.

Why? Because Monty didn’t want an extension? So?

Fast forward to the following off season. Mo finally realizes….wait for it….he can sign starters to 1 year deals.

Now whether you love or hate the Lynn/gibson signings, they both made as much, nearly, to what we have paid Miko each season the last two years…

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:28 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:10 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Thanks for the analysis. MO shot himself in the foot with this late career extensions to Carp and Mikolas. At some point, it appeared to be laziness in keeping a player instead of trying to find an upgrade for similar money. Mikolas overall as your analysis suggests was fine. But, why give him a raise the last 2 years. If they wanted to extend him, a 20% cut for each of the extended years would have made more sense and looked better. It is not a shot at Mikolas, it is just reality...

It was so weird why Mo would extend Miko in spring training of the 2023 season.

Why? Because Monty didn’t want an extension? So?

Fast forward to the following off season. Mo finally realizes….wait for it….he can sign starters to 1 year deals.

Now whether you love or hate the Lynn/gibson signings, they both made as much, nearly, to what we have paid Miko each season the last two years…

That's where their buying of pitching needs to be.
It is also always available. Quintana, Lynn, Wacha, Gibson. Just need to pick the right guy.

They won't be buying a top guy. Maybe one day they're in position for a rental or hired gun.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:33 pm If I were going to tomorrow’s game, I give Mikolas some love, if he’s pulled mid inning.

He signed here in 2018.it will be his 202th start for STL.

Larry Jackson is at #10 at most games started with 209. So Miko is up there.

It’s no fault of his for those contract extensions. And though I don’t want him back in 2026, I’ll tip my cap to his longevity in the uniform.

Kind of a strawman there. I don’t think anybody blames him for the extensions but the three years of hovering around 5.00 era and 35 loses.

I don't blame Mikolas for declining-or accepting the gift from Mo.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:33 pm If I were going to tomorrow’s game, I give Mikolas some love, if he’s pulled mid inning.

He signed here in 2018.it will be his 202th start for STL.

Larry Jackson is at #10 at most games started with 209. So Miko is up there.

It’s no fault of his for those contract extensions. And though I don’t want him back in 2026, I’ll tip my cap to his longevity in the uniform.

He is no Larry Jackson.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... la01.shtml

OldRed wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 07:59 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:33 pm If I were going to tomorrow’s game, I give Mikolas some love, if he’s pulled mid inning.

He signed here in 2018.it will be his 202th start for STL.

Larry Jackson is at #10 at most games started with 209. So Miko is up there.

It’s no fault of his for those contract extensions. And though I don’t want him back in 2026, I’ll tip my cap to his longevity in the uniform.

He is no Larry Jackson.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... la01.shtml

(bleep) that is about as consistent as it gets. 6 straight seasons with an ERA between 3.30-3.75 every year.

Not booing him off the field should suffice.

OldRed wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 07:59 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:33 pm If I were going to tomorrow’s game, I give Mikolas some love, if he’s pulled mid inning.

He signed here in 2018.it will be his 202th start for STL.

Larry Jackson is at #10 at most games started with 209. So Miko is up there.

It’s no fault of his for those contract extensions. And though I don’t want him back in 2026, I’ll tip my cap to his longevity in the uniform.

He is no Larry Jackson.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... la01.shtml

He certainly is not.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:28 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:10 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Thanks for the analysis. MO shot himself in the foot with this late career extensions to Carp and Mikolas. At some point, it appeared to be laziness in keeping a player instead of trying to find an upgrade for similar money. Mikolas overall as your analysis suggests was fine. But, why give him a raise the last 2 years. If they wanted to extend him, a 20% cut for each of the extended years would have made more sense and looked better. It is not a shot at Mikolas, it is just reality...

It was so weird why Mo would extend Miko in spring training of the 2023 season.

Why? Because Monty didn’t want an extension? So?

Fast forward to the following off season. Mo finally realizes….wait for it….he can sign starters to 1 year deals.

Now whether you love or hate the Lynn/gibson signings, they both made as much, nearly, to what we have paid Miko each season the last two years…

Exactly. If the Cards want to contend for a playoff spot next year, they can trade for 1 MLB ready starter and sign another veteran to a 1 year deal. That will replace Mikolas and Pallante in the rotation while they wait on there other SP prospects to become ready. I don't see how that would get in the way of the rebuild in any way.

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Yep. And we can call into the question the entire premise of who, or what type of player, necessitates spending a premium market value (free agency market price) on.

My bottomline is that it should be reserved for elite players, not back-end starters or complimentary players (Fowler is another example, a complimentary player who's production value fell short of the price tag on his deal). You are paying a premium, at the end of the day. It should count. By paying Mikolas 17M or whatever it is per season to be a 5th starter, you are telling us you don't have an option in house that can do the 5th starter job for 700k.

Ideally, you develop enough floor level talent in-house. That way you can spend the premium price for an ACE or a transformative prime years position player, and not clog up the payroll with complimentary free agents trying to do the jobs that you can't cover in-house.

The best values in the game (not free agents, admittedly) are the Tatis deal (340M over 14 years, it comes out to a very, very low War/season bar he has to cross to make the deal "worth it"), the Witt Jr deal (was it 288M / 11 years?), and the Julio Rodriguez deal (similar to the others but I don't know the exact number.

Hopefully under Bloom the Cardinals will develop a high enough floor level of WAR production from in-house talent. Hopefully they can bolt down a franchise piece (Wetherholt seems like the guy) with an extension. And then hopefully they can top it off with transformative / complimentary pieces from the outside. The key is that you have to already be in position to win, the in-house talent doing it's job, for those complimentary pieces to be worthwhile.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:28 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 23:10 pm

cardstatman wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:50 pm Yeah, the extention he signed in March 2023 essentially was a $40M/2yr deal for 2024-2025.

He was owed $15.75M for 2023 but this was replaced by a $55.75M/3yr deal for 2023-2025.

fangraphs estimates of his value delivered total $43.4M for the entire contract (with 2 starts to go)
2023 - $24.2M - original contract paid him $15.75 for 2023
2024 - $15.5M
2025 - $3.7M

The Cards would have come out $8.5M ahead on the last year of original deal (2023).

However, they are going to come out ~$20M behind on the extension (2024-2025).

Overall Mikolas delivered $122.4M in value and was paid $122.25M by STL. How's that for delivering exactly what you were paid to deliver?

Thanks for the analysis. MO shot himself in the foot with this late career extensions to Carp and Mikolas. At some point, it appeared to be laziness in keeping a player instead of trying to find an upgrade for similar money. Mikolas overall as your analysis suggests was fine. But, why give him a raise the last 2 years. If they wanted to extend him, a 20% cut for each of the extended years would have made more sense and looked better. It is not a shot at Mikolas, it is just reality...

It was so weird why Mo would extend Miko in spring training of the 2023 season.

Why? Because Monty didn’t want an extension? So?

Fast forward to the following off season. Mo finally realizes….wait for it….he can sign starters to 1 year deals.

Now whether you love or hate the Lynn/gibson signings, they both made as much, nearly, to what we have paid Miko each season the last two years…

That extension was born of panic. Mo saw his only starter under contract for '24 was Matz, and he knew his pitching pipeline was dry. The NTC was icing on the cake.