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Man I hadn’t realized how cold Bernal has been for about 3 months. And worse each month. Might need to work on conditioning? Crooks seems almost unanimous that Bernal is better than crooks but I’m not so sure. Side note I also really wanna seee crooks string together a solid week to end the year he looks overmatched so far which is to be expected.

And the fan boys here are much too quick to just hand them the catching job for the next decade.

It's not that simple.

There's a long line of examples.

Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:18 am And the fan boys here are much too quick to just hand them the catching job for the next decade.

It's not that simple.

There's a long line of examples.

Yeah, I remember Todd Zeile and Carson Kelly all too well. Not to mention today's Ivan Herrera.

nebfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:23 am Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

I said months ago.

It's going to be harder to root out Pages than most people think.

On a good team he's more than serviceable.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:44 am

nebfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:23 am Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

I said months ago.

It's going to be harder to root out Pages than most people think.

On a good team he's more than serviceable.

Agree

nebfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:23 am Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

Let's not get carried away.

He has a 5.2% BB rate, a .274 OBP, a .642 OPS and a 78 wRC+. That's pretty awful. His good D gets him up to 1.5 fWAR. Perfect for a backup.

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

At some point each player is also a part of the problem.

I see this often and I have made the argument myself.
IMO if your calling card is a glove or a bat. Then you really need to bring that tool
if your considered weak at the other.

VSII and Winn bring a strong glove, especially if VSII learns to throw to the correct base.

Winn with elite D and a 90 OPS+, solid only Q is health with the 23 y/o. More OBP = great career.

VSII very good D, decreased because of arm and his 72 OPS+. Significant improvement from 2024
yet he still needs to bring more bat. IF he raises it to average you have a keeper.

Pages isn't in their class of glove. He has contributed to 33 WP charged to the pitcher, 8 PB. He's #51 in blocks,
#26 in Pop time, #19 in CS above average, along with #18 arm. IMO he needs to hit closer
to Herrera if those D stats are who he is. That OPS+ of 80 is worse than his 2024.

Herrera in 2024 was #18 in blocks, #23 in POP tied with Pedro, #58 in CS above average, IH had a -4 while PP had -3,
but has that #59 arm, perhaps he should stand up to throw.

nebfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:23 am Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

The love for Pages may have gone the same place his .469 BABIP in August went... evaporating into thin air like the mirage it was.

In the months before and after August he has had a .301 OPS and a .450 OPS, respectively.

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

Backup to who?

There in lies the problem

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:04 pm

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

Backup to who?

There in lies the problem

It becomes subjective because none of them have
made it objective.

Against teams that steal bases below league average, Herrera because he brings one side of the ball
that would be top 5 for its position. Pedro forte is framing. In 3 times the amount of pitches Pedro has 4
catcher framing runs, Pozo has 2.

renostl wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:04 pm

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

Backup to who?

There in lies the problem

It becomes subjective because none of them have
made it objective.

Against teams that steal bases below league average, Herrera because he brings one side of the ball
that would be top 5 for its position. Pedro forte is framing. In 3 times the amount of pitches Pedro has 4
catcher framing runs, Pozo has 2.

Herrera can't play defense as a catcher. That's over...

Pages is above league average at CS% and blocks ok. Framing is nonsense and will be done away with, once ABS is instituted. His 81 OPS+ is livable in an overall, better hitting lineup

nebfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 09:23 am Where is the love for Pedro Pages? This guy has made vast improvements at the plate, coming up with many clutch hits and playing good defense also. I am a big fan of Pedro

Pedro is fine for a backup or platoon (he hits against lefties) but long term we need better. Course we were spoiled by Molina.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:16 pm

renostl wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:04 pm

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

Backup to who?

There in lies the problem

It becomes subjective because none of them have
made it objective.

Against teams that steal bases below league average, Herrera because he brings one side of the ball
that would be top 5 for its position. Pedro forte is framing. In 3 times the amount of pitches Pedro has 4
catcher framing runs, Pozo has 2.

Herrera can't play defense as a catcher. That's over...

Pages is above league average at CS% and blocks ok. Framing is nonsense and will be done away with, once ABS is instituted. His 81 OPS+ is livable in an overall, better hitting lineup

We'll see. I would call it over with IH quite yet. Let him
be a 60-70 game C.
One of them being dealt wouldn't surprise.
PP is #51 in blocks, IH was #18. IH would bring the #5 hitter as a C.
It's why it's more subjective than objective, IMO.

renostl wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:16 pm

renostl wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 14:04 pm

tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 10:04 am I don’t dislike pages. We didn’t have the lineup to support his bat this year. I’d rather him be backup tho tbh.

Backup to who?

There in lies the problem

It becomes subjective because none of them have
made it objective.

Against teams that steal bases below league average, Herrera because he brings one side of the ball
that would be top 5 for its position. Pedro forte is framing. In 3 times the amount of pitches Pedro has 4
catcher framing runs, Pozo has 2.

Herrera can't play defense as a catcher. That's over...

Pages is above league average at CS% and blocks ok. Framing is nonsense and will be done away with, once ABS is instituted. His 81 OPS+ is livable in an overall, better hitting lineup

We'll see. I would call it over with IH quite yet. Let him
be a 60-70 game C.
One of them being dealt wouldn't surprise.
PP is #51 in blocks, IH was #18. IH would bring the #5 hitter as a C.
It's why it's more subjective than objective, IMO.

Ivan the Turrible caught 13 games. That's how bad he is...plus he was often injured.

It's over. He's really really bad at it. Has no arm for catching too