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Posted: **17 Sep 2025 12:29 pm**

Whitey Herzog's first year as general manager of the St. Louis Cardinals was in 1980—and it was anything but ordinary.

Timeline of Events in 1980:

June 9, 1980: Herzog was hired as field manager by team president August Busch Jr.

August 1980: He stepped away from managing to become the general manager, focusing on reshaping the roster

October 1980: He took on a dual role as both GM and field manager

December 1980: At the winter meetings, Herzog made three blockbuster trades involving 21 players, laying the foundation for his signature style of play—speed, defense, and hustle, later dubbed “Whiteyball”

Impact: Though the Cardinals didn’t make the playoffs in 1981 due to the strike-shortened season, they had the best record in the National League overall. Herzog’s vision quickly paid off, culminating in a World Series win in 1982.
he reshaped the Cardinals in just a few days with a flurry of bold trades that set the stage for their 1982 World Series win.

1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)

This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.
1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)

This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.

2. December 9, 1980 – Cardinals & Cubs
Cardinals received:

Bruce Sutter (Hall of Fame closer)
Cubs received:

Leon Durham (1B/OF)
Ken Reitz (3B)
Ty Waller (infielder)

Herzog pivoted quickly when contract talks with Fingers stalled, landing Sutter—who would become the closer for the 1982 champs.

3. December 12, 1980 – Cardinals & Brewers
Cardinals received:

David Green (OF prospect)
Dave LaPoint (LHP)
Sixto Lezcano (OF)
Lary Sorensen (RHP)
Brewers received:

Rollie Fingers
Ted Simmons (All-Star catcher)
Pete Vuckovich (RHP

Can it be done now?
Why does the fix have to take years?

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 12:43 pm**

Better analytics and methodology of assessing player values, resulting in better informed GMs. More playoff spots and parity resulting in much better playoff odds, so less inclination to trade impact players.

That said, some GMs are better than others and player projections and trade value assessments still don’t always pan out, so here’s hoping our new guy is better and can find some suckers and maybe stumble on a little luck too.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 12:48 pm**

The main reason it won't happen fast is because of the work stoppage that is all but guaranteed for 2027. No way they will commit to anything past 2026 this off-season.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 12:51 pm**

carl racki wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 12:48 pm The main reason it won't happen fast is because of the work stoppage that is all but guaranteed for 2027. No way they will commit to anything past 2026 this off-season.

Exactly. I don't know how many other teams will be that passive, but you can bet the Cardinals will.

Which leads me to the biggest reason why this won't be a 1980-81 Whitey situation: Mr. Busch was a sportsman who still had a competitive desire to get one more championship before he died, which spurred Whitey to be aggressive. Until I see otherwise, nothing will convince me that Bill DeWitt has that same fire.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 13:04 pm**

The modern game is funny, and it can happen fast, but we'll never see an offseason like that one ever again. That was some sort of perfect storm. For starters, I don't think BDW will give Bloom the free rein that Augie temporarily gave Whitey.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 13:12 pm**

viewtopic.php?p=13111360&hilit=Whitey#p13111360

Could we see a "Whitey 12/1980" roster makeover?
Post by rockondlouie » 03 Aug 2025 11:58 am

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google

I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.

Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 13:57 pm**

earp wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 12:29 pm Whitey Herzog's first year as general manager of the St. Louis Cardinals was in 1980—and it was anything but ordinary.

Timeline of Events in 1980:

June 9, 1980: Herzog was hired as field manager by team president August Busch Jr.

August 1980: He stepped away from managing to become the general manager, focusing on reshaping the roster

October 1980: He took on a dual role as both GM and field manager

December 1980: At the winter meetings, Herzog made three blockbuster trades involving 21 players, laying the foundation for his signature style of play—speed, defense, and hustle, later dubbed “Whiteyball”

Impact: Though the Cardinals didn’t make the playoffs in 1981 due to the strike-shortened season, they had the best record in the National League overall. Herzog’s vision quickly paid off, culminating in a World Series win in 1982.
he reshaped the Cardinals in just a few days with a flurry of bold trades that set the stage for their 1982 World Series win.

1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)
This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.
1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)
This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.

2. December 9, 1980 – Cardinals & Cubs
Cardinals received:

Bruce Sutter (Hall of Fame closer)
Cubs received:

Leon Durham (1B/OF)
Ken Reitz (3B)
Ty Waller (infielder)
Herzog pivoted quickly when contract talks with Fingers stalled, landing Sutter—who would become the closer for the 1982 champs.

3. December 12, 1980 – Cardinals & Brewers
Cardinals received:

David Green (OF prospect)
Dave LaPoint (LHP)
Sixto Lezcano (OF)
Lary Sorensen (RHP)
Brewers received:

Rollie Fingers
Ted Simmons (All-Star catcher)
Pete Vuckovich (RHP

Can it be done now?
Why does the fix have to take years?

The times, they are s changin'

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 14:24 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
earp wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 12:29 pm Whitey Herzog's first year as general manager of the St. Louis Cardinals was in 1980—and it was anything but ordinary.

Timeline of Events in 1980:

June 9, 1980: Herzog was hired as field manager by team president August Busch Jr.

August 1980: He stepped away from managing to become the general manager, focusing on reshaping the roster

October 1980: He took on a dual role as both GM and field manager

December 1980: At the winter meetings, Herzog made three blockbuster trades involving 21 players, laying the foundation for his signature style of play—speed, defense, and hustle, later dubbed “Whiteyball”

Impact: Though the Cardinals didn’t make the playoffs in 1981 due to the strike-shortened season, they had the best record in the National League overall. Herzog’s vision quickly paid off, culminating in a World Series win in 1982.
he reshaped the Cardinals in just a few days with a flurry of bold trades that set the stage for their 1982 World Series win.

1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)
This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.
1. December 8, 1980 – Cardinals & Padres Blockbuster
Cardinals received:

Rollie Fingers (Hall of Fame closer)
Gene Tenace (veteran catcher/1B)
Bob Shirley (left-handed pitcher)
Minor leaguer
Padres received:

Terry Kennedy (catching prospect)
Kim Seaman, Al Olmsted, John Urrea, John Littlefield (pitchers)
Mike Phillips (infielder)
Steve Swisher (catcher)
This trade was Herzog’s first big swing, bringing in Fingers to stabilize the bullpen.

2. December 9, 1980 – Cardinals & Cubs
Cardinals received:

Bruce Sutter (Hall of Fame closer)
Cubs received:

Leon Durham (1B/OF)
Ken Reitz (3B)
Ty Waller (infielder)
Herzog pivoted quickly when contract talks with Fingers stalled, landing Sutter—who would become the closer for the 1982 champs.

3. December 12, 1980 – Cardinals & Brewers
Cardinals received:

David Green (OF prospect)
Dave LaPoint (LHP)
Sixto Lezcano (OF)
Lary Sorensen (RHP)
Brewers received:

Rollie Fingers
Ted Simmons (All-Star catcher)
Pete Vuckovich (RHP

Can it be done now?
Why does the fix have to take years?
The times, they are s changin'

Ching Ching

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 14:46 pm**

Who of significance did we get on July 31? We unloaded salary.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 15:01 pm**

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 14:46 pm Who of significance did we get on July 31? We unloaded salary.

It'd have to start once Bloom officially takes over, I guess. Or I hope that's what it means. A flurry of moves would give us a sign at least.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 15:11 pm**

I don’t think any of the players involved in those deals had NTC’s. Plus, Whitey dealt the team’s two top prospects, Leon Durham and Terry Kennedy. The only real money added was signing Darrell Porter. During the 1981 season, Herzog would trade Tony Scott to Houston for Andujar.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 15:12 pm**

That Simmons trade was really bad. Got nothing of consequence.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 16:04 pm**

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 13:12 pm

viewtopic.php?p=13111360&hilit=Whitey#p13111360

Could we see a "Whitey 12/1980" roster makeover?
Post by rockondlouie » 03 Aug 2025 11:58 am

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John...
<snip>

I'm so shocked you are quoting yourself. You should really do more of it.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 21:19 pm**

imadangman wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 15:01 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 14:46 pm Who of significance did we get on July 31? We unloaded salary.
It'd have to start once Bloom officially takes over, I guess. Or I hope that's what it means. A flurry of moves would give us a sign at least.

I agree we need to withhold our opinion but Bloom was running the show at the end of July. Mozeliak publicly said he planned to add and make a run at it. We dumped salary

Herzog was as good as assessing players who filled a need as anybody. His downside was overworking starting pitchers.

Posted: **17 Sep 2025 23:58 pm**

icon wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 15:12 pm That Simmons trade was really bad. Got nothing of consequence.

They actually got quite a bit: Lary Sorensen was a solid starter who won 45 games the three previous seasons, winning 18 in 1978. He went 7-7 with a 3.27 ERA in 1981 before being traded for Lonnie Smith. Sixto Lezcano was a power hitting, Gold Glove winning RF with a cannon for an arm. Plagued by injuries in the strike shortened 1981 season, he was limited to 5 HR’s and 28 RBI. He would be traded to SD along with Garry Templeton in the Ozzie Smith deal. Dave LaPoint won 9 games in the 1982 seasons and helped win a world championship, though he committed a costly error in Game 5. The key to the deal was David Green, Milwaukee’s top prospect. He was touted as a five tool player. Beset by problems with alcohol, Green never fulfilled his great potential. Turns out, he was actually 2 years older than originally thought. However, he and Dave LaPoint were key pieces in the deal that brought Jack Clark to the Cardinals in 1985. So, the Simmons deal was actually quite productive.

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