Maton and Matz

[ScotchMIrish]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

[45s]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

[CorneliusWolfe]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

So true and I’ve never understood it. So many wash out and most who make it never live up to the hype. I don’t even care about JJW until he’s in MLB performing. Didn’t care about Jordan Walker’s hype either.

[ScotchMIrish]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

[45s]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

True enough

But the deadline is the deadline……if they didn’t move them….they walk in the winter, and the club is left with nothing

You’re a bright guy….you understand that…

and winning a few more meaningless games to not of value..

[Ordinary Man]

They've added Wild Cards to keep up fan interest and attendance for, shall we say, less than stellar teams. So you end up with mediocre clubs looking at the standings and trying to decide whether to buy or sell.

You could say, mistakes are made, or you could figure that mostly it doesn't matter. If you're bad, you're bad and no amount of Third Wild Card "championships" is gonna change that.

[ScotchMIrish]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

True enough

But the deadline is the deadline……if they didn’t move them….they walk in the winter, and the club is left with nothing

You’re a bright guy….you understand that…

and winning a few more meaningless games to not of value..

I understand the argument in your direction but Mozeliak said at the All Star break he thought ownership would likely add at the end of July and then with the team at .500 they sold indicating it was likely Bloom's decision. It will be interesting to see in the future whether Bloom abandons all hope at the end of July with a similar record.

The new reality is we don't have a good TV deal and are currently 19th in MLB payroll. $80 million from being top 10 in payroll. The realistic goal is make the playoffs and go on a run.

[Barksdale's People]

Yes, after waiting too long to sell Goldy and Arenado I was really hoping they would keep waiting and get nothing for Helsley and the ever outstanding Steven Matz too.

Let’s keep this road to nowhere act going as long as possible. The fans are obviously on board based on attendance, which was excellent up to July 31st….

[Red7]

Last night aside, Leahy, Svanson, Romero and O’Brien have actually done quite well since the deadline. They offer promise of a pretty effective foursome down there. Again, the Cardinals are doing EXACTLY what they said they were going to do in 2025: give a runway to their young players and give Bloom a year to overhaul the system and to evaluate the talent within the organization, both on the MLB and minor league level. If they could do that AND make the playoffs, great. However, they weren’t going to abandon the plan. Maton was signed to be traded. We don’t know how the players we received for him will play out. Whitey traded Bob Sykes for a little known prospect named Willie McGee. The Astros traded Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell. And the Braves dealt Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz.

[Braund241]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

So true and I’ve never understood it. So many wash out and most who make it never live up to the hype. I don’t even care about JJW until he’s in MLB performing. Didn’t care about Jordan Walker’s hype either.

So true. The current group are all zeros, absolutely worthless. They really lucked out with Yadi and Albert becoming stars, and were willing to support them. The current group doesn’t offer one player worth building around. And the owners aren’t willing to pay for a professional roster. Years of bad baseball coming.

[renostl]

They've added Wild Cards to keep up fan interest and attendance for, shall we say, less than stellar teams. So you end up with mediocre clubs looking at the standings and trying to decide whether to buy or sell.

You could say, mistakes are made, or you could figure that mostly it doesn't matter. If you're bad, you're bad and no amount of Third Wild Card "championships" is gonna change that.

It depends on how a person views baseball.
IF you are a fan that it's championship or bust, or must be favorites to win, then that's the POV you'll have.

I prefer watching a team in it rather than out of it. The integrity the game, competition, relies on teams
to attempt to win.

The WC is the rules that MLB plays under. All sports do now. Debating it continuously for ever seems to be a waste of time. The WC allows
for not only the teams with less depth to get in, it also allows for those teams that were favorites but had some injuries
to sustain. The deal with baseball is the best teams are 57% to 65% winners. Not 80% winners and 2 touchdown favorites.

It has usually been the hot team at the end of the season that has the best chance to win it all. IF we only want 95+ win
teams to win that then the only way to do it is to only allow those teams in. That's forever gone.

The Cards sold. I can accept that from time to time. If it happens more often than occasional or rare then it is
against the spirit of competition and the sport.

[cardinalsfever44]

The Cards are free to sign both Maton and Matz if they wish this offseason. There was ZERO downside to trading them at the deadline.

[hugeCardfan]

The Cards are free to sign both Maton and Matz if they wish this offseason. There was ZERO downside to trading them at the deadline.

And Helsley for that matter. Very doubtful they'll want any of them next year. There are some pretty good candidates in the minors...including Gastelum who has anchored Springfield closer duties. He has 92k's in 62 innings and a 1.1 whip. After time in Memphis, I suspect he will become our closer within a couple years. Granillo is another candidate.

[hugeCardfan]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

We didn't dump because of the pen we were ready to trade. It was the rotation that couldn't help us. There was no time left to tarry, the TD was upon us. It was easily the right decision. I think the make shift pen has done a credible job. The rotation has pretty much imploded as expected.

We have learned a lot about this makeshift pen, by the way.

[Bushiro]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

True enough

But the deadline is the deadline……if they didn’t move them….they walk in the winter, and the club is left with nothing

You’re a bright guy….you understand that…

and winning a few more meaningless games to not of value..

I understand the argument in your direction but Mozeliak said at the All Star break he thought ownership would likely add at the end of July and then with the team at .500 they sold indicating it was likely Bloom's decision. It will be interesting to see in the future whether Bloom abandons all hope at the end of July with a similar record.

The new reality is we don't have a good TV deal and are currently 19th in MLB payroll. $80 million from being top 10 in payroll. The realistic goal is make the playoffs and go on a run.

19th in payroll and 80 percent of your roster sucks...man what has happened to this legendary franchise

[Hoosier59]

Combined 26 appearances since being traded. 19 zeroes.

Cardinals bullpen. 7 runs in the 8th, 9th and 10th.

Winning MLB games is secondary to dreaming about what prospects might someday be able to do.

as it should be when the club is hopelessly out of the race….

(third wild card notwithstanding)

On July 31 we were 55-55. Half a game ahead of the Giants who are currently half a game out of the wild card. Kind of early to dump the season.

We didn't dump because of the pen we were ready to trade. It was the rotation that couldn't help us. There was no time left to tarry, the TD was upon us. It was easily the right decision. I think the make shift pen has done a credible job. The rotation has pretty much imploded as expected.

We have learned a lot about this makeshift pen, by the way.

I agree Huge, the players traded needed to go. You can argue whether enough was received in return, but that’s for another thread.
What I believe though, is that Mo stopped short of doing everything that was needed. Nootbaar and Gorman, could have both been traded. A young outfielder was needed who hits right handed. Possibly though, Chaim didn’t want Mo making those trades, due to him not getting enough in return for those players.