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Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
by CardsBest
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
by alw80
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:43 pm
by hugeCardfan
The young bats are young. There are different momentum’s as well. I think some will work out. Some won’t. Next year will tell us more.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
by Banner29
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:50 pm
by icon
CardsBest wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
Noot ain't young anymore. Just exposed.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 20:57 pm
by alw80
Banner29 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
From Winn sure but the other three I think they are what they are. Noot is more of a platoon guy and Walker and Gorman just aren't what we hoped/were hyped to be.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 21:06 pm
by Youboughtit
CardsBest wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
The Cardinals entered a rebuild with the 23rd rank farm system. Top 10 now only because of Wetherholt Doyle and 14 5 year rule 5 eligible players. What did you evpect? It’s going to get worse before better and a huge FA spree is the only way. These players have no trade value and a roster of 26 home grown player with multiple all stars is impossible
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 21:55 pm
by Ozziesfan41
I’m not too disappointed with Winn he’s been dealing with a bad knee for a while that’s hurts production and had the bad back and still plays gold glove defense and is hitting .324 with an OPS over .800 with RISP. I think all it takes is for him to have a full healthy season for him to have his break out the question is is he going to be another noot who is always hurt
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 22:36 pm
by Rojo Johnson
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:43 pm
The young bats are young. There are different momentum’s as well. I think some will work out. Some won’t. Next year will tell us more.
So, we’re gonna do the runway again next year? Like, we won’t know enough about the Spare Squad to throw in the towel in ’26 on a bunch of them? We have to watch them AGAIN? (bleep).
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 22:44 pm
by peterman'srealitytour
CardsBest wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
If you are going to point out what you consider failures, you should point out the successes. Relative to expectations, these guys should be considered successes:
Donovan
Burleson
Herrera
In addition,Gorman and Saggese trending up. Regarding Pages, he has outperformed expectations. Regarding Church, coming into this season, most people didn’t even know his name. Barely on the radar. How can he be a failure when no one really had expectations?
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 22:59 pm
by Ozziesfan41
peterman'srealitytour wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 22:44 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
If you are going to point out what you consider failures, you should point out the successes. Relative to expectations, these guys should be considered successes:
Donovan
Burleson
Herrera
In addition,Gorman and Saggese trending up. Regarding Pages, he has outperformed expectations. Regarding Church, coming into this season, most people didn’t even know his name. Barely on the radar. How can he be a failure when no one really had expectations?
I wouldn’t call Gorman trending up he had a hot streak but is going back down again he’s down to .217 with a .719 OPS and this is his fourth season and on top of not hitting he’s not good on defense either
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 23:11 pm
by Carp4Cy
Banner29 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
This is a massive problem for a reset that is hoping to rebuild internally. If you cant develop a MVP level talent and/or multiple all stars, and if we aren't willing to spend 200M on other team's developed talent, there is no realistic path to winning ~100 games and seriously competing at the level we want to year after year. Just a bucket of "average" hitters and one or two below average mixed in doesn't get us there. Not even close.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 23:15 pm
by peterman'srealitytour
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 22:59 pm
peterman'srealitytour wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 22:44 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:01 pm
Cardinals have had many young bats not perform well. Winn, Walker, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Pages were supposed to be primary starters or did start several games. Saggaese was supposed to be a good prospect received in trade. Church had good season in minors. Still small sample for Church and Saggese. Cards cant live with that many unproven bats in the lineup and expect to ever be a good team.
Winn .681 OPS great D but bat has been below average
Walker .595 OPS high Ks
Pages .654 OPS .228 AVG
Noot .717 OPS .239 AVG
Gorman .719 OPS .217 AVG high Ks
Saggese .626 OPS
Scott .623 OPS .223 AVG hit collector
Church .390 OPS
If you are going to point out what you consider failures, you should point out the successes. Relative to expectations, these guys should be considered successes:
Donovan
Burleson
Herrera
In addition,Gorman and Saggese trending up. Regarding Pages, he has outperformed expectations. Regarding Church, coming into this season, most people didn’t even know his name. Barely on the radar. How can he be a failure when no one really had expectations?
I wouldn’t call Gorman trending up he had a hot streak but is going back down again he’s down to .217 with a .719 OPS and this is his fourth season and on top of not hitting he’s not good on defense either
And if he gets hot again this week, then what? Numbers since mid June have been solid. Good article by Hochman today to support it. This OP was about offense from young players, not defense.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 23:15 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:11 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
This is a massive problem for a reset that is hoping to rebuild internally. If you cant develop a MVP level talent and/or multiple all stars, and if we aren't willing to spend 200M on other team's developed talent, there is no realistic path to winning ~100 games and seriously competing at the level we want to year after year. Just a bucket of "average" hitters and one or two below average mixed in doesn't get us there. Not even close.
Well hopefully fixes the development system that Mo ruined and they can start producing quality players again. That’s the only way the cardinals will get better again then once it starts producing then they can spend money to fill in the gaps with good veterans
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 23:22 pm
by Carp4Cy
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:15 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:11 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
This is a massive problem for a reset that is hoping to rebuild internally. If you cant develop a MVP level talent and/or multiple all stars, and if we aren't willing to spend 200M on other team's developed talent, there is no realistic path to winning ~100 games and seriously competing at the level we want to year after year. Just a bucket of "average" hitters and one or two below average mixed in doesn't get us there. Not even close.
Well hopefully fixes the development system that Mo ruined and they can start producing quality players again. That’s the only way the cardinals will get better again then once it starts producing then they can spend money to fill in the gaps with good veterans
We keep hearing "fix the development". Well Bloom has been here 2 full seasons now and was supposedly focused on fixing the MILB development from the start. That's longer than some of our prospects have even been in the minors. Hope it doesn't take much longer to start seeing proof that its been successful and not just more smoke and mirrors.
Re: Cards Young Bats Not Cutting It
Posted: 31 Aug 2025 23:37 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:22 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:15 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 23:11 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:49 pm
alw80 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2025 20:10 pm
Which, honestly, was expected to be the case.
I think in the case of Walker, Gorman, Winn, and Noot we were expecting to see more progress. But as of now they all don’t inspire much hope
This is a massive problem for a reset that is hoping to rebuild internally. If you cant develop a MVP level talent and/or multiple all stars, and if we aren't willing to spend 200M on other team's developed talent, there is no realistic path to winning ~100 games and seriously competing at the level we want to year after year. Just a bucket of "average" hitters and one or two below average mixed in doesn't get us there. Not even close.
Well hopefully fixes the development system that Mo ruined and they can start producing quality players again. That’s the only way the cardinals will get better again then once it starts producing then they can spend money to fill in the gaps with good veterans
We keep hearing "fix the development". Well Bloom has been here 2 full seasons now and was supposedly focused on fixing the MILB development from the start. That's longer than some of our prospects have even been in the minors. Hope it doesn't take much longer to start seeing proof that its been successful and not just more smoke and mirrors.
lol you think an entire development system could be both fixed and be churning out quality prospects in just two seasons? That’s crazy he had to evaluate and see just exactly where the problems were who was worth keeping who to fire who to bring in then he had to go out and find those people and try to bring them in then they have to work with the players coming in. It took mo years to destroy but you think it could be fixed and be churning out good prospects in just two season