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I was told on this forum that runs are very hard to come by in August because the heat and humidity take a toll on hitters only and not pitchers. That was the explanation I was given for why Herrera is slumping.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
Unlikely playing 90 minutes of baseball - rest of the time sitting on a bench with an air conditioned clubhouse nearby - is taking a toll on professional athletes unless they are out of shape. Minor injuries adding up more likely the cause of some players underperforming. With pitchers innings pitched by this time of year is usually the culprit.icon wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:17 amI was told on this forum that runs are very hard to come by in August because the heat and humidity take a toll on hitters only and not pitchers. That was the explanation I was given for why Herrera is slumping.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
Explain this to me. In 2017 - Matheny's final full season at the helm - the Cardinals without the universal DH scored 761 runs and drew 3.4 million fans. Obviously not good enough as Matheny was fired midway into the 2018 season with a winning record. 2025 Cardinals with the universal DH are on pace to score 710 runs and on pace to draw 2.3 million. Opponents in 2025 on pace to score 753 with our pitching staff a train wreck. How could Cardinals team with an incompetent manager get 761 runs with no DH and the wonderful DH era neither the Cardinals or opponents are on pace to match that?rbirules wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:59 am I don't think the DH has anything to do with it. Fans want to watch a good team, and they haven't had that for almost three years now and ownership has shown no indication that they will spend to remedy that, hence lack of attendance.
But if blaming it on the DH helps you cope with the current state of Cardinals baseball then that's your prerogative. I don't think Pallante being forced to bat 2 times last night would have had fans flocking to the stadium.
You are aware that the run scoring environment changes in baseball, correct? Even pre-DH there were eras of more offense and less offense.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 12:45 pmExplain this to me. In 2017 - Matheny's final full season at the helm - the Cardinals without the universal DH scored 761 runs and drew 3.4 million fans. Obviously not good enough as Matheny was fired midway into the 2018 season with a winning record. 2025 Cardinals with the universal DH are on pace to score 710 runs and on pace to draw 2.3 million. Opponents in 2025 on pace to score 753 with our pitching staff a train wreck. How could Cardinals team with an incompetent manager get 761 runs with no DH and the wonderful DH era neither the Cardinals or opponents are on pace to match that?rbirules wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:59 am I don't think the DH has anything to do with it. Fans want to watch a good team, and they haven't had that for almost three years now and ownership has shown no indication that they will spend to remedy that, hence lack of attendance.
But if blaming it on the DH helps you cope with the current state of Cardinals baseball then that's your prerogative. I don't think Pallante being forced to bat 2 times last night would have had fans flocking to the stadium.
I don't think it has anything to do with the DH. I much prefer high scoring back and forth games to a pitcher's duel.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
Doesn't explain why runs are down with the DH compared to prior to the DH. This is by far the worst pitching staff I can remember and opponents are on pace to score fewer runs than the 2017 Cardinals. I do remember MLB saying they were moving to the universal DH to draw in more fans.rbirules wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 13:31 pmYou are aware that the run scoring environment changes in baseball, correct? Even pre-DH there were eras of more offense and less offense.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 12:45 pmExplain this to me. In 2017 - Matheny's final full season at the helm - the Cardinals without the universal DH scored 761 runs and drew 3.4 million fans. Obviously not good enough as Matheny was fired midway into the 2018 season with a winning record. 2025 Cardinals with the universal DH are on pace to score 710 runs and on pace to draw 2.3 million. Opponents in 2025 on pace to score 753 with our pitching staff a train wreck. How could Cardinals team with an incompetent manager get 761 runs with no DH and the wonderful DH era neither the Cardinals or opponents are on pace to match that?rbirules wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:59 am I don't think the DH has anything to do with it. Fans want to watch a good team, and they haven't had that for almost three years now and ownership has shown no indication that they will spend to remedy that, hence lack of attendance.
But if blaming it on the DH helps you cope with the current state of Cardinals baseball then that's your prerogative. I don't think Pallante being forced to bat 2 times last night would have had fans flocking to the stadium.
In 2017 there were 22,582 runs scored, and 6,105 HRs, without the NL having the DH. Those dropped to 21,630 and 5,585 in 2018, again before the NL had the DH. In 2019 it was up to 23,467 runs and 6,776 HRs. Last year there were 21,343 runs, and 5,453 HRs. I'm pretty sure the Cardinals had better fan support in 2018 than they did last year, and the reason isn't that the NL adopted the DH. But I'm also pretty sure you know that but just like returning to this argument over and over.
You prefer high scoring arcade style games. Do you attend Cardinals games?blackinkbiz wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 13:36 pmI don't think it has anything to do with the DH. I much prefer high scoring back and forth games to a pitcher's duel.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
The problem is the Cards are too often on the receiving end of those high scoring games.
Ie... they s*ck. That's why no one wants to watch. If they played anywhere near the level they did the first 3 months they'd still be in this thing, but when you have a manager who likes to sit young kids after a big game so they can feel good about themselves ... well, this is the result.
It has nothing to do with DH it has to do with it not being a good team. If bloom has a 1996 type whirlwind offseason where he makes exciting moves brings in a good manager fans will be backScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
who is winning those games?ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
When the Cardinals had a winning record they were bottom half in MLB attendance.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:16 pmwho is winning those games?ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
Who is leading in most of the innings?
The goal every year should be to win the World Series , once that is no longer possible most lose interest. Sure if they win 30 in a row they could get in but that's not going to happen. I am 20 minutes from the stadium and wouldn't go even with free tickets,ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
Valid points but the 2017 Cardinals won 83 and drew 3.4 million. I think the pay to watch tv deal has caused a lot of people to lose interest.Punkk6 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:58 pmThe goal every year should be to win the World Series , once that is no longer possible most lose interest. Sure if they win 30 in a row they could get in but that's not going to happen. I am 20 minutes from the stadium and wouldn't go even with free tickets,ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?
If someone stopped being a baseball fan because they had to pay to watch them on TV (which you’ve had to do for decades), they weren’t much of a baseball fan to begin with.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 19:36 pmValid points but the 2017 Cardinals won 83 and drew 3.4 million. I think the pay to watch tv deal has caused a lot of people to lose interest.Punkk6 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:58 pmThe goal every year should be to win the World Series , once that is no longer possible most lose interest. Sure if they win 30 in a row they could get in but that's not going to happen. I am 20 minutes from the stadium and wouldn't go even with free tickets,ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 07:46 am 4-3, 12-8, 8-4, 7-6, 8-3
63 runs in 5 games. DH baseball at its best. Where are the fans? Attendance is worse than before.
Is it possible the fans want to watch good baseball and not an arcade game?