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Pitching. Any trade they make will require pitching in return. Their farm is full of position playersZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:15 pm He’s having a down year and the orioles just gave a big extension to their top prospect, who is also a catcher.
What would it take to obtain him?
Don't we have like 3 of our top 5 prospects as catchers? We don't need catchers we have 4 on our roster now with 3 in the minors highly rated. We need good pitching and good bats.ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:15 pm He’s having a down year and the orioles just gave a big extension to their top prospect, who is also a catcher.
What would it take to obtain him?
I'm not sure, but his stock is plummeting rather rapidly. His offensive numbers have fallen sharply. I'm also surprised he's already 27.ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:15 pm He’s having a down year and the orioles just gave a big extension to their top prospect, who is also a catcher.
What would it take to obtain him?
It’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
+1brock118 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:24 pmDon't we have like 3 of our top 5 prospects as catchers? We don't need catchers we have 4 on our roster now with 3 in the minors highly rated. We need good pitching and good bats.ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:15 pm He’s having a down year and the orioles just gave a big extension to their top prospect, who is also a catcher.
What would it take to obtain him?
I think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Yes I do. He had a great rookie season and they can say his struggles are due to injuries. Adley would have much more trade value than Walker. Walker has had 3 seasons and still cannot hit the same pitch. At some point fans just have to realize the cannot recognize spin and even reach that outside low slider he’s trying to pull. IMO until Walker bends his knees and closes his stance completely he will not succeed. Right now all he is trying to do is not swing at it…..not the answer. Learn to drive it the other way.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:38 pmI think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Do you think the O's could expect a Doyle type in return? Given where Rutschmann's career stands right now? Is his stock that much higher than our J Walker?
I wonder how many of those flaws Walker has at the plate come from his lack of approach, which makes it to where he doesn't know what he's good at doing. Doesn't have a clear approach. Doesn't know what to repeat. He is clearly not very confident.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:44 pmYes I do. He had a great rookie season and they can say his struggles are due to injuries. Adley would have much more trade value than Walker. Walker has had 3 seasons and still cannot hit the same pitch. At some point fans just have to realize the cannot recognize spin and even reach that outside low slider he’s trying to pull. IMO until Walker bends his knees and closes his stance completely he will not succeed. Right now all he is trying to do is not swing at it…..not the answer. Learn to drive it the other way.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:38 pmI think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Do you think the O's could expect a Doyle type in return? Given where Rutschmann's career stands right now? Is his stock that much higher than our J Walker?
What I see is a big guy who dominated until AA but had a giant hole that was never addressed because pitchers could not execute and at lower spin and velo he could recognize and lay off. Then he comes to MLB and the high spins and pinpoint control quickly finds his weakness. The big issue is some players cannot adjust and change. No matter what they do they are not able to adjust. So what is left is a big man who hit the ball really hard but into the ground and has a 30% k rate. To fix it he needs to learn to HIT the low outside slider but all his changes have been only not to swing at it. What happens? Pitchers go inside and since he’s not going to swing at it throw it for a strike. The fix is complicated. I would have him get in his stance and have someone throw randomly without swinging and him tell me slider or fastball. Do this at super high spin and velo. Then his stance is too upright and his bat path is down. He needs to do exactly what Judge did. Bend his knees, widen his base and close his stance. Problem is this is a giant overhaulimadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:54 pmI wonder how many of those flaws Walker has at the plate come from his lack of approach, which makes it to where he doesn't know what he's good at doing. Doesn't have a clear approach. Doesn't know what to repeat. He is clearly not very confident.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:44 pmYes I do. He had a great rookie season and they can say his struggles are due to injuries. Adley would have much more trade value than Walker. Walker has had 3 seasons and still cannot hit the same pitch. At some point fans just have to realize the cannot recognize spin and even reach that outside low slider he’s trying to pull. IMO until Walker bends his knees and closes his stance completely he will not succeed. Right now all he is trying to do is not swing at it…..not the answer. Learn to drive it the other way.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:38 pmI think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Do you think the O's could expect a Doyle type in return? Given where Rutschmann's career stands right now? Is his stock that much higher than our J Walker?
You are probably right and I agree rutschmann's stock ought to be at least a little bit higher.
With Walker, I bet there are at least a handful of teams just waiting to pluck him out from under our nose for practically free. Teams with hitting coaches who probably already have the plan to fix him. I guess in Walker's case, the bar for his offense would have to be pretty high to provide elite overall value considering his poor defense. It would have to be several 30hr 90rbi+ seasons to make us really miss him, not just a single 21hr 80 rbi season.
Maybe it reminds you of Domingo Santana. He was a big prospect with Houston. Tall athletic rightfielder. I'm sure they were sweating a little bit when he went and had a single big season with Milwaukee, but that ended up being about it for him and i seem to remember the realization that Santana's athleticism didn't translate very well to being able to play outfield (like Walker). Is there a hitting coach out there that can get more than one big season out of Walker? Maybe not.
Going back to Rutschmann, he also has limited defensive value playing 1B/DH. But he showed ability to get on base and hit a lot of doubles (more xbh) in his first 2 seasons. He sure could become an offensive mainstay for someone.
It is a giant overhaul indeed. The Judge talk is naturally the next place to go in the conversation. Well, Walker is still younger than Judge was when he debuted. So there's that. Judge and McGwire both started low and pushed up with their legs during their swing. Then there's guys like Holliday who were tall but started upright and actually got lower during their swing (just for comparison sake). Walker is upright the whole time, just trying to scoop the bat through the zone with his upper body.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 19:27 pmWhat I see is a big guy who dominated until AA but had a giant hole that was never addressed because pitchers could not execute and at lower spin and velo he could recognize and lay off. Then he comes to MLB and the high spins and pinpoint control quickly finds his weakness. The big issue is some players cannot adjust and change. No matter what they do they are not able to adjust. So what is left is a big man who hit the ball really hard but into the ground and has a 30% k rate. To fix it he needs to learn to HIT the low outside slider but all his changes have been only not to swing at it. What happens? Pitchers go inside and since he’s not going to swing at it throw it for a strike. The fix is complicated. I would have him get in his stance and have someone throw randomly without swinging and him tell me slider or fastball. Do this at super high spin and velo. Then his stance is too upright and his bat path is down. He needs to do exactly what Judge did. Bend his knees, widen his base and close his stance. Problem is this is a giant overhaulimadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:54 pmI wonder how many of those flaws Walker has at the plate come from his lack of approach, which makes it to where he doesn't know what he's good at doing. Doesn't have a clear approach. Doesn't know what to repeat. He is clearly not very confident.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:44 pmYes I do. He had a great rookie season and they can say his struggles are due to injuries. Adley would have much more trade value than Walker. Walker has had 3 seasons and still cannot hit the same pitch. At some point fans just have to realize the cannot recognize spin and even reach that outside low slider he’s trying to pull. IMO until Walker bends his knees and closes his stance completely he will not succeed. Right now all he is trying to do is not swing at it…..not the answer. Learn to drive it the other way.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:38 pmI think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Do you think the O's could expect a Doyle type in return? Given where Rutschmann's career stands right now? Is his stock that much higher than our J Walker?
You are probably right and I agree rutschmann's stock ought to be at least a little bit higher.
With Walker, I bet there are at least a handful of teams just waiting to pluck him out from under our nose for practically free. Teams with hitting coaches who probably already have the plan to fix him. I guess in Walker's case, the bar for his offense would have to be pretty high to provide elite overall value considering his poor defense. It would have to be several 30hr 90rbi+ seasons to make us really miss him, not just a single 21hr 80 rbi season.
Maybe it reminds you of Domingo Santana. He was a big prospect with Houston. Tall athletic rightfielder. I'm sure they were sweating a little bit when he went and had a single big season with Milwaukee, but that ended up being about it for him and i seem to remember the realization that Santana's athleticism didn't translate very well to being able to play outfield (like Walker). Is there a hitting coach out there that can get more than one big season out of Walker? Maybe not.
Going back to Rutschmann, he also has limited defensive value playing 1B/DH. But he showed ability to get on base and hit a lot of doubles (more xbh) in his first 2 seasons. He sure could become an offensive mainstay for someone.
I think he is reluctant to change what got him there even if it what now is holding him back. Some players want to be elite and those players usually have swagger. Name a timid superstar. He seems intelligent but it is a desire to be the best that drives some players. I just don’t see it. If there is a team willing to give a high velo #2 SP I would move him and let them try to fix it. I think he ends up being a serviceable player but not a star. Clock is ticking. If he was elite he would have figured it out by now. Name a HOF who struggled 3 years then became elite. I bet there are very few.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 20:16 pmIt is a giant overhaul indeed. The Judge talk is naturally the next place to go in the conversation. Well, Walker is still younger than Judge was when he debuted. So there's that. Judge and McGwire both started low and pushed up with their legs during their swing. Then there's guys like Holliday who were tall but started upright and actually got lower during their swing (just for comparison sake). Walker is upright the whole time, just trying to scoop the bat through the zone with his upper body.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 19:27 pmWhat I see is a big guy who dominated until AA but had a giant hole that was never addressed because pitchers could not execute and at lower spin and velo he could recognize and lay off. Then he comes to MLB and the high spins and pinpoint control quickly finds his weakness. The big issue is some players cannot adjust and change. No matter what they do they are not able to adjust. So what is left is a big man who hit the ball really hard but into the ground and has a 30% k rate. To fix it he needs to learn to HIT the low outside slider but all his changes have been only not to swing at it. What happens? Pitchers go inside and since he’s not going to swing at it throw it for a strike. The fix is complicated. I would have him get in his stance and have someone throw randomly without swinging and him tell me slider or fastball. Do this at super high spin and velo. Then his stance is too upright and his bat path is down. He needs to do exactly what Judge did. Bend his knees, widen his base and close his stance. Problem is this is a giant overhaulimadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:54 pmI wonder how many of those flaws Walker has at the plate come from his lack of approach, which makes it to where he doesn't know what he's good at doing. Doesn't have a clear approach. Doesn't know what to repeat. He is clearly not very confident.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:44 pmYes I do. He had a great rookie season and they can say his struggles are due to injuries. Adley would have much more trade value than Walker. Walker has had 3 seasons and still cannot hit the same pitch. At some point fans just have to realize the cannot recognize spin and even reach that outside low slider he’s trying to pull. IMO until Walker bends his knees and closes his stance completely he will not succeed. Right now all he is trying to do is not swing at it…..not the answer. Learn to drive it the other way.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:38 pmI think you are right. When he came up they said Mark Teixeira switch-hitting ability at the catcher positon. I don't doubt that he would stabilize his offense given a year or two low pressure somewhere playing 1B/DH.Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:30 pmIt’s injuries from playing C. Move him to 1B and he will thrive. However the Orioles are pitching deprived. They would want a Doyle type return for him. This is a move the Brewers would make.imadangman wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:28 pm That seems like an advantageous pickup for someone. For us, you would have to decide where he fits in among our excess of not only catchers but also 1B/DH depth. We would be giving up a lot to take a risk on a player where we have plenty of existing depth.
Do you think the O's could expect a Doyle type in return? Given where Rutschmann's career stands right now? Is his stock that much higher than our J Walker?
You are probably right and I agree rutschmann's stock ought to be at least a little bit higher.
With Walker, I bet there are at least a handful of teams just waiting to pluck him out from under our nose for practically free. Teams with hitting coaches who probably already have the plan to fix him. I guess in Walker's case, the bar for his offense would have to be pretty high to provide elite overall value considering his poor defense. It would have to be several 30hr 90rbi+ seasons to make us really miss him, not just a single 21hr 80 rbi season.
Maybe it reminds you of Domingo Santana. He was a big prospect with Houston. Tall athletic rightfielder. I'm sure they were sweating a little bit when he went and had a single big season with Milwaukee, but that ended up being about it for him and i seem to remember the realization that Santana's athleticism didn't translate very well to being able to play outfield (like Walker). Is there a hitting coach out there that can get more than one big season out of Walker? Maybe not.
Going back to Rutschmann, he also has limited defensive value playing 1B/DH. But he showed ability to get on base and hit a lot of doubles (more xbh) in his first 2 seasons. He sure could become an offensive mainstay for someone.
I guess my main point is if Walker was able to overhaul it and use his lower half more like a Judge swing, he would probably develop a sense of what pitch he is looking to drive he would likely by extension learn what pitches to lay off of.
Major overhaul indeed, and if there's one thing the cardinals know how to do its how to overhaul a player into a total fubar disaster.
I bet the far more likely outcome is the Orioles trade Mountcastle then move Adley to 1B next year.ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 18:15 pm He’s having a down year and the orioles just gave a big extension to their top prospect, who is also a catcher.
What would it take to obtain him?