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I remember when this was a hot topic on CT. Would the Cards try to outbid someone for one of the big 4 SSs? I'm glad the Cards didn't acquire any of them, although I sure wanted TT back then.
None with an OPS over .800. Only two with an OPS+ that's over 110 (115 is the high).
The contracts averaged 8.75 years and $27.3M/yr.
Almost a billion spent on them.

It's as if GMs and/or owners decided that no new, young players would be coming along. So, scared of uncertainty, afraid of the future, they tried to control the future, instead of having some faith in its possibilities.
Long-term contracts are not smart, with very few exceptions (Judge?).

Yeah but I would feel a lot better right now today if, precisely during the winter months of 2022, John Mozeliak had put forward to us fans a display of doing "something."

All of them were overvalued and some of us said so at the time. Swanson was a dubious bat coming off a career year. Turner was a speed-based guy who had an aggressive approach that won't age well. Bogaerts was a bad defender whose bat goes from "great" to "good" at 3B.

Correa was a tier above the rest, but nobody knew about his glass ankles when they rated him that high.

3dender wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:57 am All of them were overvalued and some of us said so at the time. Swanson was a dubious bat coming off a career year. Turner was a speed-based guy who had an aggressive approach that won't age well. Bogaerts was a bad defender whose bat goes from "great" to "good" at 3B.

Correa was a tier above the rest, but nobody knew about his glass ankles when they rated him that high.

Nobody knew? He’s played in 115+ games 4 times in his career, twice have been with the Twins (3.5 seasons). 2 130+ game seasons in 5 full seasons with the Astros (not including his rookie year and 2020).

T. Turner was my guy too, another 5 hit game last night and shooting for the batting title.

imadangman wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:46 am Yeah but I would feel a lot better right now today if, precisely during the winter months of 2022, John Mozeliak had put forward to us fans a display of doing "something."

Agreement.

All 4 teams those players play for are doing pretty well.
FA spending isn't for bargain hunting, it's an attempt to win.
Those players didn't bankrupt their teams or become prohibitive
to acquiring other players on those teams.

Glad the Cards have Masyn Winn moving forward, enough said.

3dender wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:57 am All of them were overvalued and some of us said so at the time. Swanson was a dubious bat coming off a career year. Turner was a speed-based guy who had an aggressive approach that won't age well. Bogaerts was a bad defender whose bat goes from "great" to "good" at 3B.

Correa was a tier above the rest, but nobody knew about his glass ankles when they rated him that high.

Nobody knew? Dude failed two physicals before finally signing that deal with the Twins.

Not to mention, the Astros clearly knew as they never even seriously engaged him to stay.

ClassicO wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 16:38 pm I remember when this was a hot topic on CT. Would the Cards try to outbid someone for one of the big 4 SSs? I'm glad the Cards didn't acquire any of them, although I sure wanted TT back then.
None with an OPS over .800. Only two with an OPS+ that's over 110 (115 is the high).
The contracts averaged 8.75 years and $27.3M/yr.
Almost a billion spent on them.

Trea Turner was and still is awesome. But that contract is cray cray. Signed through 2033. Probably looks really bad by 2028.

To his credit though, he's putting together one of his best defensive seasons in years. That's always been the knock on him.

3dender wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:57 am All of them were overvalued and some of us said so at the time. Swanson was a dubious bat coming off a career year. Turner was a speed-based guy who had an aggressive approach that won't age well. Bogaerts was a bad defender whose bat goes from "great" to "good" at 3B.

Correa was a tier above the rest, but nobody knew about his glass ankles when they rated him that high.

Always liked Dansby myself. GG at SS, shows up, and 20+ HR's.

They all allow for the other SS in the org to be moved to anywhere else
on the field or they themselves move elsewhere.
In 2023 they'd have moved one of DeJong, Edman, Winn, or Donovan elsewhere on the field
or used in trade for what the team didn't have.

Overpriced yes. It's just not an absolute cost because we don't know the corresponding move.

ClassicO wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 16:38 pm I remember when this was a hot topic on CT. Would the Cards try to outbid someone for one of the big 4 SSs? I'm glad the Cards didn't acquire any of them, although I sure wanted TT back then.
None with an OPS over .800. Only two with an OPS+ that's over 110 (115 is the high).
The contracts averaged 8.75 years and $27.3M/yr.
Almost a billion spent on them.

Screenshot 2025-08-19 at 4.31.26 PM.png

Times have changed so much. For the SS position so much focus is on offense. May be the most important position player on the field but defense takes back seat.

imadangman wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:46 am Yeah but I would feel a lot better right now today if, precisely during the winter months of 2022, John Mozeliak had put forward to us fans a display of doing "something."

I'm sure glad he didn't sign those 4. He did ok with Peralta a couple of years.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 12:03 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 16:38 pm I remember when this was a hot topic on CT. Would the Cards try to outbid someone for one of the big 4 SSs? I'm glad the Cards didn't acquire any of them, although I sure wanted TT back then.
None with an OPS over .800. Only two with an OPS+ that's over 110 (115 is the high).
The contracts averaged 8.75 years and $27.3M/yr.
Almost a billion spent on them.

Trea Turner was and still is awesome. But that contract is cray cray. Signed through 2033. Probably looks really bad by 2028.

To his credit though, he's putting together one of his best defensive seasons in years. That's always been the knock on him.

I'll say

+1 DRS - 2025
-13 DRS - 2024

thetank2 wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 12:34 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:46 am Yeah but I would feel a lot better right now today if, precisely during the winter months of 2022, John Mozeliak had put forward to us fans a display of doing "something."

I'm sure glad he didn't sign those 4. He did ok with Peralta a couple of years.

At some point should a fan be more concerned about production or
the budget? Aware the Cardinals do have a budget.

What season does Winn produce 20+ HR's and what could he have got
the Cardinals in a trade, a cheaper younger Sonny Gray?

renostl wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 13:42 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 12:34 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑21 Aug 2025 10:46 am Yeah but I would feel a lot better right now today if, precisely during the winter months of 2022, John Mozeliak had put forward to us fans a display of doing "something."

I'm sure glad he didn't sign those 4. He did ok with Peralta a couple of years.

At some point should a fan be more concerned about production or
the budget? Aware the Cardinals do have a budget.

What season does Winn produce 20+ HR's and what could he have got
the Cardinals in a trade, a cheaper younger Sonny Gray?

Elite defense means he doesn't need to hit 20+ HRs. Cards need to focus on finding that 20+ HRs from multiple other positions first before worrying about SS. No 2025 Cardinal has hit that mark yet. If your corner IFs and OFs are slugging, that takes care of the problem.

If Winn grows into consistently hitting 15 HRs, 35 doubles, 20 SBs to a 110-115 wRC+, he's a 5-6 win player. Wasn't that far off offensively as a rookie. Upping his walk rate to a league average 8% would go a long way.