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From the chat today. This is some good news.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:30 pm From the chat today. This is some good news.

when did they change the rules for the Cardinals?

because I'm sorely confused

No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:44 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

"now"...when did the "now" happen....b/c the issue is 2023 Revenue, when the Cards and Angels won the lottery for the 2025 draft...which then put us on penalty. If it's 2024, then that "shouldn't" change the penalty.

And anything to deal with the draft, I don't trust DG anymore. Nothing against him, but he doesn't follow all that much anymore, nor the rules.

I need to see/read a FULL article from MLB on this...then the Draft Publications need to take the Cards off the penalty.

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:44 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

So what does it matter? Eligible in 2026 but not in 2027 vs the opposite. They are in a 5 year rebuild so will have to set out 2-3 times likely. I guess I would have to see the list of players to know if it’s a benefit of missing 26 vs 27

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:48 pm
And anything to deal with the draft, I don't trust DG anymore. Nothing against him, but he doesn't follow all that much anymore, nor the rules.

I need to see/read a FULL article from MLB on this...then the Draft Publications need to take the Cards off the penalty.

He claims his sources are MLB, the Cardinals and the CBA and he has double checked these sources. So make of it what you will.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:51 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:44 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

So what does it matter? Eligible in 2026 but not in 2027 vs the opposite. They are in a 5 year rebuild so will have to set out 2-3 times likely. I guess I would have to see the list of players to know if it’s a benefit of missing 26 vs 27

2026 college is supposed to be at the 2024 level....very deep. 2027 HS is supposed to be better than 2025 HS was, which was insanely good.

if you want established player then 2026 is better...if you want a copy of 2025 draft, then 2027 is your draft.

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:55 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:48 pm
And anything to deal with the draft, I don't trust DG anymore. Nothing against him, but he doesn't follow all that much anymore, nor the rules.

I need to see/read a FULL article from MLB on this...then the Draft Publications need to take the Cards off the penalty.

He claims his sources are MLB, the Cardinals and the CBA and he has double checked these sources. So make of it what you will.

honestly, thank you for chatting this out with me. This changes everything we've known. They're using 2024 Revenue now, instead of 2023 Revenue. And we didn't know this revenue until March of this year.

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:56 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:51 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:44 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

So what does it matter? Eligible in 2026 but not in 2027 vs the opposite. They are in a 5 year rebuild so will have to set out 2-3 times likely. I guess I would have to see the list of players to know if it’s a benefit of missing 26 vs 27

2026 college is supposed to be at the 2024 level....very deep. 2027 HS is supposed to be better than 2025 HS was, which was insanely good.

if you want established player then 2026 is better...if you want a copy of 2025 draft, then 2027 is your draft.

Well we all know what the needs are….Superstars. I want the highest upside. No needs for safe. They have 20 safe picks in the farm. Give me the guy I want to buy a jersey of.

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:34 pmwhen did they change the rules for the Cardinals?

because I'm sorely confused

This is what Derrick posted in his chat. I have seen it being discussed here for awhile, and I sure as hell have no idea how it works, but I saw this in his chat. If that's the case, I'm hoping for some more luck.

Cardinals are eligible for a lottery (top six pick) in 2026 if they do not make the playoffs.

Again, the Cardinals ARE eligible for a lottery pick (top six) if they do not make the playoffs.

That is double-checked with MLB, the CBA, and the Cardinals, and I circled back on that just to be sure today. Hope that helps.

I do not know where the confusion began but it's possibly related to the Cardinals have access to the lottery in consecutive years. They did not get lottery picks (top six) in consecutive years, however as they "lost" the lottery in 2024 and picked 7th. They "won" the lottery in 2025 to pick 5th. Top six picks are considered lottery picks.


The CBA spells that out, and if the confusion comes from payor/payee stuff, then I get it. Cardinals are not a payor. So they are not limited to one lottery pick. They are entering payee for the first time this season and that would change their status. They're limited to two consecutive lottery picks. They have one, in Doyle. They can get another in 2026.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 20:19 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:34 pmwhen did they change the rules for the Cardinals?

because I'm sorely confused

This is what Derrick posted in his chat. I have seen it being discussed here for awhile, and I sure as hell have no idea how it works, but I saw this in his chat. If that's the case, I'm hoping for some more luck.

Cardinals are eligible for a lottery (top six pick) in 2026 if they do not make the playoffs.

Again, the Cardinals ARE eligible for a lottery pick (top six) if they do not make the playoffs.

That is double-checked with MLB, the CBA, and the Cardinals, and I circled back on that just to be sure today. Hope that helps.

I do not know where the confusion began but it's possibly related to the Cardinals have access to the lottery in consecutive years. They did not get lottery picks (top six) in consecutive years, however as they "lost" the lottery in 2024 and picked 7th. They "won" the lottery in 2025 to pick 5th. Top six picks are considered lottery picks.


The CBA spells that out, and if the confusion comes from payor/payee stuff, then I get it. Cardinals are not a payor. So they are not limited to one lottery pick. They are entering payee for the first time this season and that would change their status. They're limited to two consecutive lottery picks. They have one, in Doyle. They can get another in 2026.

thank you, Ronnie.

Good news that Cardinals in Receivers line.
They could also use Quarterback too.

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:48 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:44 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:42 pm

freed5179 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 19:38 pm No rules change. The lottery is considered picks 1-6, so the Cards haven't had back-to-back lotto picks. That bad lotto luck in '24 may actually turn out to have been a lucky break after all.

rules are different for Payers in the revenue system. The Angels and Cardinals were revenue payers in 2023, thus when they won the lottery in December of 2024 for the 2025 draft, they immediately took on a penalty for 2026 draft. That's in the CBA

At least that's how it's been explained to me and almost every national media out there.

Something had to change....Did the Cards get an adjustment? Were they receivers in 2023?

Or have we've been wrong from the beginning and both the Angels and Cards get to be in the lottery this Winter Meeting?

I'm very confused by all of this now.

Apparently they are receivers now.

"now"...when did the "now" happen....b/c the issue is 2023 Revenue, when the Cards and Angels won the lottery for the 2025 draft...which then put us on penalty. If it's 2024, then that "shouldn't" change the penalty.

And anything to deal with the draft, I don't trust DG anymore. Nothing against him, but he doesn't follow all that much anymore, nor the rules.

I need to see/read a FULL article from MLB on this...then the Draft Publications need to take the Cards off the penalty.

I think they’re eligible. I haven’t seen anywhere that it says they’re not, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they’re receivers of revenue share in light of their tv rights bankruptcy and drastic drop in ticket sales.

2024 revenues from CNBC... I don't know of anywhere you can find revenue sharing payor vs payee numbers.

During the 2024 season, the sport’s revenue hit a record $12.1 billion which amounts to $403M per team.

2024 Revenue EBITDA Team
$705M $7M New York Yankees
$701M $10M Los Angeles Dodgers
$533M $65M San Francisco Giants
$528M $38M Chicago Cubs
$528M $42M Philadelphia Phillies
$514M $71M Boston Red Sox
$499M $31M Houston Astros
$476M $7M Atlanta Braves
$468M $79M San Diego Padres
$446M -$272M New York Mets
$446M $3M Texas Rangers
$403M ------- League average $12.1B / 30 teams
$398M $27M Los Angeles Angels 12th
$395M $34M St. Louis Cardinals 13th
$386M -$8M 0% Toronto Blue Jays
$383M $56M Seattle Mariners 15th
$356M $41M Minnesota Twins
$356M $33M Cleveland Guardians
$351M $9M Arizona Diamondbacks
$338M $44M Baltimore Orioles
$337M $29M Milwaukee Brewers
$332M $31M Kansas City Royals
$330M $41M Cincinnati Reds
$329M $58M Pittsburgh Pirates 23rd
$328M $20M Colorado Rockies 24th - won the lottery in 2024 and 2025
$328M $51M Detroit Tigers
$316M $10M Washington Nationals 26th
$315M -$15M Chicago White Sox
$304M $33M Tampa Bay Rays
$296M $19M Miami Marlins
$275M $3M Athletics