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There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
by Web7
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 07:29 am
by 45s
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
the club is not doomed
if they draft well....become more active in the Caribbean /Cuba free agent market....and develop young players there is a path to future success
yes, they will miss on some....but Rock's boner may bring the expertise to build a pipeline
they don't have much to trade, and this owner will not spend lavishly
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 07:46 am
by butsir01
Our Yutes: Run No Good, Hit No Good, Field No Good.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 07:54 am
by Jatalk
I think my main concern right now is defense in the infield. Gorman, Sagesse and even Burleson at first don’t look that great and make costly errors.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 07:58 am
by rightthinker4
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:29 am
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
the club is not doomed
if they draft well....become more active in the Caribbean /Cuba free agent market....and develop young players there is a path to future success
yes, they will miss on some....but Rock's boner may bring the expertise to build a pipeline
they don't have much to trade, and this owner will not spend lavishly
Big if’s!
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 08:33 am
by 45s
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:58 am
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:29 am
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
the club is not doomed
if they draft well....become more active in the Caribbean /Cuba free agent market....and develop young players there is a path to future success
yes, they will miss on some....but Rock's boner may bring the expertise to build a pipeline
they don't have much to trade, and this owner will not spend lavishly
Big if’s!
Certainly....but what is the alternative...??
The cupboard is bare as to trades......and this owner is not going to spend...not to mention that stl is a tough sell for free agents who are in demand
there really is no alternative
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 08:41 am
by rockondlouie
Hopefully that changes under Bloom/Cerfolio
But this is the FLAW w/the
"Don't spend any money, build through the farm system" crowd.
How's that business plan worked out for the Pirates, Rockies, Marlins, A's, ect.......who've drafted much higher over the years than the Cardinals?
You have to do both, build the minor league system and field a decent major league team or your business is doomed.
BDWJr has stated for years "PAYROLL IS TIED TO ATTENDANCE".
C. Bloom can walk (continue to build the farm system he's already revamped the past two years and stock it through smart drafts and trades) and chew gum (build a competitive roster through smart trades and signings) as long as BDWJr gives him the proper payroll of around $160M.
The farm system will be stocked through drafts/trades NO MATTER what the Cardinals do!
Spending wisely has NO EFFECT whatsoever on what's going on down below since Bloom has been given the monetary assets he needed to bring the system up to speed.
But if the Dewitt's spend no money on payroll while ONLY focusing on the farm system, then you're going to see (we already are) 1970's level 1.5M attendance.
There is NO LOGIC behind losing for five-six years HOPING your farm system churns out two-three all-star level players while attendance and interest in the team falls back into that 1970's malaise.
Give Bloom a decent, NOT CRAZY, payroll of about $160M and let him add what he needs to keep attendance from plummeting even further is the only way to go.
Fail to do that and the franchise value will fall and you'll lose even more fans than you already have.
It's very hard to get a customer back once you lose them, people have options for their discretionary incomes.
JMO
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 08:49 am
by Ronnie Dobbs
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
They need to build around guys who are good and very healthy like Dustin May. We doomed ourselves when we didn't trade for him and extend him to a long-term deal.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 09:32 am
by Web7
Do you feel better yet?
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 09:35 am
by swatski
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 09:32 am
Do you feel better yet?
Whether he does or not, he’s correct.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 09:43 am
by ramfandan
cardinals farm system is ranked 14th in latest Baseball America rankings.
So middle of the pack. The No. 1 team is Milw. Brewers.
Their No. 1 prospect is rated higher than JJ in the Top 100 rankings.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 09:58 am
by Carp4Cy
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:33 am
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:58 am
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:29 am
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
the club is not doomed
if they draft well....become more active in the Caribbean /Cuba free agent market....and develop young players there is a path to future success
yes, they will miss on some....but Rock's boner may bring the expertise to build a pipeline
they don't have much to trade, and this owner will not spend lavishly
Big if’s!
Certainly....but what is the alternative...??
The cupboard is bare as to trades......and this owner is not going to spend...not to mention that stl is a tough sell for free agents who are in demand
there really is no alternative
They have to spend on something. 2026 payroll is at $69 million. That’s unsustainable for a good faith effort of any sort. 2027 payroll without Gray drops well below $50M. $25m if Nado goes.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 10:01 am
by Rojo Johnson
If Bill is sending up a trial balloon to see how much the fanbase will take, he has his answer. It’s up to him whether to continue to lose his shirt (and paying customers) or, alternatively, to put money back in the business and try to get the fans back. It’s time for him to level with the fans and tell them what he intends to do and then stick to it. The turnaround is going to cost him some cash. If he tells the fans no major FA signings until the fate of baseball after ’26 becomes clearer, then I think reasonable people will cut him some slack. But he can’t simply lock his wallet and raise season ticket prices. Whoever advised him to do that should be sent packing today. If I was a season ticket holder, no way I would pony up additional money.
The lack of people at the 3 game weekend series against the Yankees had to be a real slap in the face of Ol’ Dollar Bill. Learn from it, Dude.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 10:04 am
by BrockFloodMaris
rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:41 am
Hopefully that changes under Bloom/Cerfolio
But this is the FLAW w/the
"Don't spend any money, build through the farm system" crowd.
How's that business plan worked out for the Pirates, Rockies, Marlins, A's, ect.......who've drafted much higher over the years than the Cardinals?
You have to do both, build the minor league system and field a decent major league team or your business is doomed.
BDWJr has stated for years "PAYROLL IS TIED TO ATTENDANCE".
C. Bloom can walk (continue to build the farm system he's already revamped the past two years and stock it through smart drafts and trades) and chew gum (build a competitive roster through smart trades and signings) as long as BDWJr gives him the proper payroll of around $160M.
The farm system will be stocked through drafts/trades NO MATTER what the Cardinals do!
Spending wisely has NO EFFECT whatsoever on what's going on down below since Bloom has been given the monetary assets he needed to bring the system up to speed.
But if the Dewitt's spend no money on payroll while ONLY focusing on the farm system, then you're going to see (we already are) 1970's level 1.5M attendance.
There is NO LOGIC behind losing for five-six years HOPING your farm system churns out two-three all-star level players while attendance and interest in the team falls back into that 1970's malaise.
Give Bloom a decent, NOT CRAZY, payroll of about $160M and let him add what he needs to keep attendance from plummeting even further is the only way to go.
Fail to do that and the franchise value will fall and you'll lose even more fans than you already have.
It's very hard to get a customer back once you lose them, people have options for their discretionary incomes.
JMO
I agree with your assessment, Rock. The way I answer the "develop vs buy" talent question is that Bloom and Cerfolio need to show significant progress on the development side, which will take a couple years, and ownership will provide the needed $ to fill out the roster. Mo clearly lost the confidence of the owners, and they pulled the plug on buying talent. Bloom and Cerfolio are on the clock.
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 10:29 am
by rockondlouie
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 10:04 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:41 am
Hopefully that changes under Bloom/Cerfolio
But this is the FLAW w/the
"Don't spend any money, build through the farm system" crowd.
How's that business plan worked out for the Pirates, Rockies, Marlins, A's, ect.......who've drafted much higher over the years than the Cardinals?
You have to do both, build the minor league system and field a decent major league team or your business is doomed.
BDWJr has stated for years "PAYROLL IS TIED TO ATTENDANCE".
C. Bloom can walk (continue to build the farm system he's already revamped the past two years and stock it through smart drafts and trades) and chew gum (build a competitive roster through smart trades and signings) as long as BDWJr gives him the proper payroll of around $160M.
The farm system will be stocked through drafts/trades NO MATTER what the Cardinals do!
Spending wisely has NO EFFECT whatsoever on what's going on down below since Bloom has been given the monetary assets he needed to bring the system up to speed.
But if the Dewitt's spend no money on payroll while ONLY focusing on the farm system, then you're going to see (we already are) 1970's level 1.5M attendance.
There is NO LOGIC behind losing for five-six years HOPING your farm system churns out two-three all-star level players while attendance and interest in the team falls back into that 1970's malaise.
Give Bloom a decent, NOT CRAZY, payroll of about $160M and let him add what he needs to keep attendance from plummeting even further is the only way to go.
Fail to do that and the franchise value will fall and you'll lose even more fans than you already have.
It's very hard to get a customer back once you lose them, people have options for their discretionary incomes.
JMO
I agree with your assessment, Rock. The way I answer the "develop vs buy" talent question is that Bloom and Cerfolio need to show significant progress on the development side, which will take a couple years, and ownership will provide the needed $ to fill out the roster. Mo clearly lost the confidence of the owners, and they pulled the plug on buying talent. Bloom and Cerfolio are on the clock.
Thx BFM
I sure hope BDWJr isn't setting Bloom/Cerfolio up for failure though by choking off payroll ($110M-ish would be a disgrace).
It's JMO but I think those two bright baseball minds can draft, trade for and develop young players AND still field a solid team while they wait for that minor league talent to work it's way thru the system.
But it will take BDWJr's commitment to that $160M payroll.
I know some, including the media, love to slam those of us who want them to do both.
Too bad
Mo was the one who wasted payroll resources.
Why should Bloom suffer (low payroll) because of Mo's stupidity?
Re: There is one major problem with the Cardinals youth movement…… Almost all of them are not very good
Posted: 18 Aug 2025 11:33 am
by 45s
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 09:58 am
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:33 am
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:58 am
45s wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:29 am
Web7 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 07:12 am
The only guy worth building around is Winn…..If they don’t add by trade or free agency we are doomed
the club is not doomed
if they draft well....become more active in the Caribbean /Cuba free agent market....and develop young players there is a path to future success
yes, they will miss on some....but Rock's boner may bring the expertise to build a pipeline
they don't have much to trade, and this owner will not spend lavishly
Big if’s!
Certainly....but what is the alternative...??
The cupboard is bare as to trades......and this owner is not going to spend...not to mention that stl is a tough sell for free agents who are in demand
there really is no alternative
They have to spend on something. 2026 payroll is at $69 million. That’s unsustainable for a good faith effort of any sort. 2027 payroll without Gray drops well below $50M. $25m if Nado goes.
Agree…but it won’t be of significance…….changing out warm bodies…
Rearranging deck chairs…