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Infielder Jesus Baez is the most talented of the three prospects the Cardinals received, easily top five in the Mets’ system just on raw tools, but he’s not a very good baseball player. His approach at the plate is just bad, he doesn’t play hard on either side of the ball, and he showed up out of shape this season. He has great bat speed and projects to plus power, although he gets ready so late at the plate, I’m surprised he can get to better velocity. He’(poop) .244/.334/.406 this year in High A as a 20-year-old after spending the first week in Low A, with just a 16.7 percent strikeout rate.

Link that quote please. BA and MLB pipeline disagree.

RunSup wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:14 pm Link that quote please. BA and MLB pipeline disagree.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/652635 ... ed_article

I don’t like this for the St. Louis Cardinals, to put it mildly. Yes, Helsley’s a rental, so it won’t be hard for them to end up “winning” the deal in terms of value returned — if any of these guys gets to the majors, which is not a guarantee, they’ll probably come out ahead by WAR or your metric of choice. Helsley was one of the best relievers on the market, though, and this can’t have been the best possible return.

RunSup wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:14 pm Link that quote please. BA and MLB pipeline disagree.

You think I just made this up, you have to have a link?

OK, go find it yourself

It’s impossible to know if this was a good trade. Too many different “expert” opinions. But we know this for sure: this is a trade that can only help the Cards in the long term. Even if the players traded for become mlb ready to play it will be several years down the road.

I really didn’t know what to expect for Helsley but I was sure hoping for some near ready talent. I certainly didn’t want another infielder. We need outfielders with promising power.

Helsley was our best trade chip and we basically got nothing. I sure hate to think about trading Donovan but I’m thinking that happens at some point in the off season. Maybe Winn.


My depression only gets deeper.

Keith Law can be petty and vicious in his analysis of certain players.

If he were that good of a talent evaluator, he would be a high-ranking MLB front office guy.

He is not.

Dude always seems bitter in any write up I see.

Jatalk wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:24 pm It’s impossible to know if this was a good trade. Too many different “expert” opinions. But we know this for sure: this is a trade that can only help the Cards in the long term. Even if the players traded for become mlb ready to play it will be several years down the road.

I really didn’t know what to expect for Helsley but I was sure hoping for some near ready talent. I certainly didn’t want another infielder. We need outfielders with promising power.

Helsley was our best trade chip and we basically got nothing. I sure hate to think about trading Donovan but I’m thinking that happens at some point in the off season. Maybe Winn.


My depression only gets deeper.

And this is the reason I’m so against dumping ML talent for big “ifs”……nothing for ML All-star is stupid. And I don’t really care about the money part…MLB teams need to spend $$ to win. Continue to not spend money on talent and you have this team and no fans. Dumping talent and never replacing isn’t rebuilding

An Old Friend wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:16 pm

RunSup wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:14 pm Link that quote please. BA and MLB pipeline disagree.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/652635 ... ed_article

Thanks

Have to hope Baez develops(probably will end up being included in a trade down the road though) ...the other two players in the trade are AA talents.

Goldfan wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:27 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:24 pm It’s impossible to know if this was a good trade. Too many different “expert” opinions. But we know this for sure: this is a trade that can only help the Cards in the long term. Even if the players traded for become mlb ready to play it will be several years down the road.

I really didn’t know what to expect for Helsley but I was sure hoping for some near ready talent. I certainly didn’t want another infielder. We need outfielders with promising power.

Helsley was our best trade chip and we basically got nothing. I sure hate to think about trading Donovan but I’m thinking that happens at some point in the off season. Maybe Winn.


My depression only gets deeper.

And this is the reason I’m so against dumping ML talent for big “ifs”……nothing for ML All-star is stupid. And I don’t really care about the money part…MLB teams need to spend $$ to win. Continue to not spend money on talent and you have this team and no fans. Dumping talent and never replacing isn’t rebuilding

Well, if they didn't trade Helsley, they were losing him and getting nothing in return. So you want to hold on to "the all-star" so he can save 8 more, and blow 3 more this year to help the Cards to an 80 win season?

retiredscout1 wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 23:30 pm Have to hope Baez develops(probably will end up being included in a trade down the road though) ...the other two players in the trade are AA talents.

Oh, ok.......

Who were the other teams and offers for Helsley?

Goldfan wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:18 pm I don’t like this for the St. Louis Cardinals, to put it mildly. Yes, Helsley’s a rental, so it won’t be hard for them to end up “winning” the deal in terms of value returned — if any of these guys gets to the majors, which is not a guarantee, they’ll probably come out ahead by WAR or your metric of choice. Helsley was one of the best relievers on the market, though, and this can’t have been the best possible return.

You saw what THE BEST reliever in the market got. He was younger, better, and had two full years of control.

This is a comparable deal.

I like Keith Law and I respect his opinion, but it's not going to really sway me one way or another on this.

He may not be "impressed" with the return for Helsley, but, first of all, Helsley hasn't been great this season. I don't know what people are thinking he's going to get in trade. Judging by the other relievers who have been traded this deadline, it appears to be basically in line with the market. Now, he may not like the players traded, but apparently Chaim Bloom and his people do.

And Chaim Bloom and his people are pretty respected baseball people, so why would I change my opinion based on Law's take? And most other things I have read have deemed this as a pretty good return for the Cardinals. But yea, these guys aren't sure things. So what? Trading Helsley was never going to get you a "sure thing." There is a pretty good amount of evidence that you could point to before he was traded to tell you this.

hmoss859 wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:25 pm Keith Law can be petty and vicious in his analysis of certain players.

If he were that good of a talent evaluator, he would be a high-ranking MLB front office guy.

He is not.

Dude always seems bitter in any write up I see.

Does anybody track Keith Law’s success as a prospect prognosticator? I doubt he has an impressive record.