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They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

I don’t think they misjudged it I think it was just more hope and prayer Mo praying it would be good enough than him really thinking it was

I think they became too willing to hollow out the depth in their minor league system (e.g., the Ozuna trade) to support this philosophy of being just good enough to make the playoffs and hope for the best. With some bad health issues for the guys they kept, their hollowed out system got to the point where it could no longer produce the talent they needed.

Basically they became too willing to sacrifice the future for the present when the present wasn't all that great anyway.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:59 am I think they became too willing to hollow out the depth in their minor league system (e.g., the Ozuna trade) to support this philosophy of being just good enough to make the playoffs and hope for the best. With some bad health issues for the guys they kept, their hollowed out system got to the point where it could no longer produce the talent they needed.

Basically they became too willing to sacrifice the future for the present when the present wasn't all that great anyway.

BDWJr's business plan to draw 3+M a season and keep the gravy train going knowing he'd do just enough, but never go all in to win WS #12.

The train finally ran off the rails, the minor league system neglect finally broke.

Many have said it would take attendance crashing to get his attention, it finally happened last season and has gotten worse this year.

Dewitt woke up, fired Mo (retirement my a z z) and Oli will be next while bringing in a smart future POBO who's already done a great job fixing the minor league system and is now at work on fixing Mo's horrible roster.

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

Transition year with rotation:
Older guys out(Miles, Fedde,Matz)
Younger guys in(McGreevy, etc). Unfortunately some injuries have arisen(Thompson, Rom, etc)
and the timeline for some(Mathews, Roby, Hence, etc) is more in line with September or ST 2026.
Might be a bit piecemeal for balance of 2025?

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

Apparently, Mo didn't feel the starting pitching was suspect.

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

I believe you.

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:29 am

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

Apparently, Mo didn't feel the starting pitching was suspect.

All teams have holes/needs.
Recognizing them is the easy part. Correcting them not so easy.
Promoting from within works best.
Unfortunately there has been a talent gap in the system.
Hopefully now with Mathews, Roby, Hence, Doyle, Franklin, etc looming that will change heading into 2026?
You can possibly trade from some position player depth?
Free Agency is always an option but sinking big $$ in pitching is always risky with the chance of injuries.
And the Cards are NOT the Dodgers or Yankees when it comes to revenue.

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:29 am

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

Apparently, Mo didn't feel the starting pitching was suspect.

All teams have holes/needs.
Recognizing them is the easy part. Correcting them not so easy.
Promoting from within works best.
Unfortunately there has been a talent gap in the system.
Hopefully now with Mathews, Roby, Hence, Doyle, Franklin, etc looming that will change heading into 2026?
You can possibly trade from some position player depth?
Free Agency is always an option but sinking big $$ in pitching is always risky with the chance of injuries.
And the Cards are NOT the Dodgers or Yankees when it comes to revenue.

Good, sensible post.

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:45 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:29 am

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

Apparently, Mo didn't feel the starting pitching was suspect.

All teams have holes/needs.
Recognizing them is the easy part. Correcting them not so easy.
Promoting from within works best.
Unfortunately there has been a talent gap in the system.
Hopefully now with Mathews, Roby, Hence, Doyle, Franklin, etc looming that will change heading into 2026?
You can possibly trade from some position player depth?
Free Agency is always an option but sinking big $$ in pitching is always risky with the chance of injuries.
And the Cards are NOT the Dodgers or Yankees when it comes to revenue.

Good, sensible post.

Thanks just an opinion.
I think we have to be patient.
Many on here preach “rebuilding” but expect it to happen overnight.
How long did it take to build Rome????

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:29 am

sdaltons wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:27 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:24 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 10:19 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:18 am

craviduce wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:43 am

Shady wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 08:39 am They misjudged the caliber of starting pitching talent needed. And how many are needed to really be competitive over the course of a season.

or...

They suffered immense injuries to their starting depth all the way through AAA

or...

your expectations aren't inline with what the organization said coming into this season...."we're rebuilding/resetting"

------

But good try.

Early on, I posted that the Cardinals starting pitching was suspect. Did you not agree with that?

early on, everyone said they were "suspect"

Wait a minute....are you saying his questioning of the rotation wasn’t an epiphany????

You guys aren't going to believe this but I also said it was suspect. I guess shady and I are thinking alike. Great minds!

Apparently, Mo didn't feel the starting pitching was suspect.

And I think Mo's ability to evaluate his roster is suspect.